BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

Is there anywhere some kind of overview on existing plants / Photo Bio Reactors  for algae cultivation / production?

While I'm looking into this field of development there still seems to be a lack of precise information, maybe even occultism of the technologies and procedures.

Maybe here is already the point reached, where this development entered the trap of commercializing, patenting and thus being blocked of further headway.
 

Thus I'm mostly missing data on the efficiency of algae production plants or PBRs, while I nearly the only one found within the report of Mike Briggs on his research.

If  I'm buying a car or a computer, I'm first having a look onto the essential technical data: power of the engine, gas consumption, processor frequency and appropriate This was missed by me here (did I overlooked it?) while I consider this - the efficiency and of course the ecobalance - essential for the development.

I think, a helpful instrument might be a database of technologies and also suitable algae strains, that shows this kind of essential data and lets researchers, potencial investors, bio-farmer, users decide, where to set their appropriate focus, while now it's presenting some kind of fog and confusion (except to the really insiders of this matter) and thus not very promising to care about.

I think, it might be viable to list algae strains with their potential yield (oil / biomass) related to the environment data and also their efficiency of using the supplied sunlight, their requirements, maybe caveats and issues also known researches and plants.

The same with the design of plants / PBRs, their efficiency - in particular their use of area / ecological impact - and their economical data.

It seems, one major problem of this development consists by entering the stage of commercial occultism too early, while we really need a free and unlimited flow of information.

 i consider implementing the concept of open source - that we have within the development of Linux and other software - is the step we need, since we just can't afford the mentioned commercial and otherwise occultism in this times while we urgently need sustainable energy sources.
 

In the case I overlooked such kind of overview / information on the efficiency of PBRs / plants and / or algae strains, I appreciate each hint on it.

 

thanx for reading / replying

GW

 

PS: sorry for my bad use of english language. Hope I still got to made the point of my consideration / intention.
 

welcome aboard gwhh. your english is almost flawless, dont sell urself short!

i think you have outlined the difficulties in doing worldly research in a capitalistic world quite well. no one is willing to give up the info because then you cannot fund the next step in a world where everyone knows everything, at least not thru traditional economics of capitalism. i suppose this is where NGO's and gov's need to step up to the plate, which is what you are calling for. write up a proposal and hook up with some on point researchers in your local area and get to work :)

there is a pretty good wealth of info when it comes to algae. Algae Culture by Burlew, 1953 is a good place to start. it presents alot of the issues that someone getting starting thinking about growing algae en mass. and its old, used and cheap.

 Borowitzka http://wwwscieng.murdoch.edu.au/centres/others/algaelab/MABpublications.htm  is some good reading. if you get thru all of his lit, ull know more about algae than algae themselves.

im not sure what happened to Phyco.org. http://en.phyco.org/index.php/Main_Page    i was hoping they would be something like you mentioned but it seems they went down over 6months ago.

there are various threads on this server that i think offer a good analysis and ref. material to bring anyone up to speed.

Algae of the western great lakes region. 1951. cranbrook institute is about the best key book that i have, except for diatoms for which u will need specialized keys anyhow. fyi, G. Prescott, the author is a local of wisconsin :) Freshwater algae of the british isles. 2002. Whitton & Brook. Cambridge. is a newer book.

Im sorry im not much for the salt water algae for im far too inland for such a beast.

another good book to give someone some understanding of wild populations in freshwater lakes is 'A Eutrophic lake' . Thomas Brock. its a good analysis on what happens thruout the year on a typical modern city shored lake with some data.

lastly...just give this poor guy a call... http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/greatlakes/cladophora/Citizen.pdf  im sure he has a few buckets to spare :)

enjoy!

 

Which plants or PBRs are now known to work efficient / most mature?

And the same question relating algae strains.

 We're especially interested in algae cultivation in moderate / northern regions with limited sunshine, many times with overclouded sky (maybe half of the amount of solar energy of southern regions). Water maybe fresh or salty / brackish.

Alternatively an environment with much sun / desert with salty water.

My question for efficiency is targeted to the amount of utilisable biomass, i.e. not only the oil-share of it, but all parts, that inclose energy. I use to calculate it to the area. that is used for production, to find out, how much of the solar energy got to be converted into biomass-energy.

(relating the latter I found the values of the report of Mike Briggs impressing and would like to know, if they have been realized within practical projects or other with similar values).
 

gwhh:

Which plants or PBRs are now known to work efficient / most mature?

And the same question relating algae strains.

 We're especially interested in algae cultivation in moderate / northern regions with limited sunshine, many times with overclouded sky (maybe half of the amount of solar energy of southern regions). Water maybe fresh or salty / brackish.

Alternatively an environment with much sun / desert with salty water.

My question for efficiency is targeted to the amount of utilisable biomass, i.e. not only the oil-share of it, but all parts, that inclose energy. I use to calculate it to the area. that is used for production, to find out, how much of the solar energy got to be converted into biomass-energy.

(relating the latter I found the values of the report of Mike Briggs impressing and would like to know, if they have been realized within practical projects or other with similar values).
 

the short answer is 0. there are a few companies out there like greenfuel   http://www.greenfuelonline.com/index.htm    that have prototype systems under deployment but they are not going to give you the kind of information you are requesting because of that capitalistic playground we live in. if they give you this information, who is going to buy their technology and how are they going to pay for more technology? as far as im aware, there are no 'algae to energy' turnkey systems available on a commercial scale. its all still in the R & D phase. like i mentioned, in 1953, they had already doing the R&D and it seems that we are not much closer to a commercialization of this technology now than in 1953. there are some real serious issues when it comes to growing a monoculture bulk algae.

my best guess is that a mutagenic algal system will need to be developed to jump the technical issues that face algae to energy technology.

 

froggy:

there are a few companies out there like greenfuel   http://www.greenfuelonline.com/index.htm    that have prototype systems under deployment but they are not going to give you the kind of information you are requesting because of that capitalistic playground we live in. if they give you this information, who is going to buy their technology and how are they going to pay for more technology?

Exactly. Since there is no government funding for this field, researchers have to rely on trying to find private funding (which generally means talking to hundreds of people/companies claiming to be interested in investing in your research until you find one that is *actually* interested, and not just trying to get you to tell them all about your technology so they can go try to work on it themselves). No company is going to finance public domain research, since then there is no economic advantage to them funding it (since funding research generally means you work out agreements ahead of time as far as licensing. But, if the work becomes public domain, anyone can use it without needing a license). So, researchers aren't going to divulge any of their data, designs, etc. in this field.

Only way that will change is if the government actually starts funding research in this field again. 

my best guess is that a mutagenic algal system will need to be developed to jump the technical issues that face algae to energy technology.

That's one approach. IMO a better approach is just learning how to build photobioreactors much cheaper. Current designs weren't developed with economics in mind at all.

if i could be so bold as to say the NREL algae to biodiesel study had a design flaw. if they would have also had PBR's as well as openair facilities, we may not be discussing this topic right now. the assumption was that open air offered the greatest ROI and thus, the best chance so they went with that logic.

I suppose that both mutagenic improvement as well as cheaper PBR's is what is needed. IMO, we are still a very long ways away from an algae to energy mass production system.

Hello GWHH and welcome to the world of research. If you have read the threads in this forum you would have seen that a couple of us are working on PBR designs.

I began my research in August and have used information that I have gathered off the www to design my PBR. There was nowhere where I found all the information sitting there waiting for me to find it. One resource I can recommend and that Froggy has not mentioned is oilgae.com - lots of info for a starting point there.

When I started this whole thing I did not think to write down each page from which I gathered info so I cannot tell you where to go other than to use your search engines and type in words like algae, photobioreactor, biodiesel, glycerine, glycerol and any other word that may have a connection to oil from algae.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

I think more than anything, this searching for info is what has driven me because I realised that there is huge potential for development in this field. It is virtually a clean slate and we are the first people to write on that slate (well not quite, but you get the drift).

Experimentation opens doors to new begginings and I can only suggest that if you want to get involved, ensure you have adequate space on your computer, you have an adequate internet download capability and you have lots of time to search and read.

So, we have a bunch of startup companies, all with tight lips regarding their own proprietary, patent pending, PBRs. How do these investors and scientists sit down and work all these agreements out? I suppose there's some rather stringent NDAs (Non Disclosure Agreements), but I've always wondered how these are put together and now they are enforced. It sounds like it could be a very cloak-and-dagger type of world.

In your own research, Bob, you would have realised the huge dollar earning potentials for a person or company coming up with a successful system of growing algae for fuel production. It is worth millions and that sort of money will always attract cloak and dagger intregue.

IMO, here is what you are missing.

Lets say Slippery actually DOES invent the better mouse trap. Big deal. there are 1000's of better mouse traps that are invented every day. its not like Slippery has enough $$$ to go commercial. so what does Slippery do?

he has to go get other financing. but who is going to invest in Slippery's company if he doesnt have any IP protection? VC or angles wont because their $$$ isnt secure because he gave away (or stole) all the information. someone with millions of $$$ just sitting around can overpower and steal the idea. No body with large sums of $$$ are going to invest in a non-protected investement. So Slippery is stuck with a better mousetrap that will soon be copied. Game over for Slippery and someone else gets rich and powerful on his idea.

Something i hear over and over again, "Its better to have an A team and a B plan than an A plan and a B team." The better mousetrap means nothing without everything else in place. crappy mousetraps gets sold all the time because of good salesmenship and the proper business plans.

Its not a perfect system but its the best one we got.

froggy, I'm not sure I completely agree with you there.

 

There's a tremendous value in getting to market first. (and in getting "near" the market first).  You get a lot of press coverage if you're number 1 or number 2 to start in a field; number 3 better have an enticing story to tell, and number 5 is buried in a column inch in the back of the financial pages.

If you can get to the point of having a real installation, you've got a serious leg-up on your competition; they need to convinve the customer that "we can do it" (and the customer is usually putting his job and reputation on the line).  Lots of "poorer mousetraps" get sold because customers would rather have the mundane-and-sure rather than the exciting-and-unproven.

Also, people are a huge part of what a savvy Angel investor looks for.  The IP is pretty much worthless if the people aren't there (or aren't going to stay).  Even if you bought the IP, it would take you long enough to get new people up to speed that you've lost most of your competitive time-to-market advantage, and most of your customer-relations advantage, too.

Every company that can still sell a crappy mousetrap is in business because at one time they sold the best mousetrap on the market, and they're living off of that momentum.

 

Anyone know of any good books on Patents? Something other than Nolo's "Patent it yourself"? I've read the Nolo book and other web pages on patents but I still feel like I am spinning my wheels and can't really get my patent applications written.

Working late again mate!

I think you should move this question to a new thread. You will get more people looking at it.

bobk,

While I can't recommand a particular book, I would recommend that you read a bunch of patents; preferably in the same field you're patent would be in.  You start getting used to the peculiar language, and the overall format that patents are written in (not to mention that it's a great place to get new ideas from!).  Read them with a grain of salt, however, there's a lot of garbage patents out there (in pretty much every field!)

It is important to understand what the different sections mean, and particularly that the "Description of the Invention" is VERY different than the claims!  (The Description is basically what you're giving away, the claims are what you get back in return!) 

Thanks to everyone who has commented on my request for patent guides. I have managed to download a few books, and will be perousing them and will notify the forums of anything useful I find.

 

I'd like to point out that I am a 'mad scientist/inventor' in general, and as such I have many things that, if I had been able to patent first, would have made me very wealthy. I just get all flustered when trying to describe my inventions in the manner I see others doing it. Right now, I am going to try to get a few PPA (provisional patent applications) filed just to 'mkar my ground', use these to try to get funding to hire a real hot-shot of a patent lawyer who massages it into the correct form. 

 In the future, it will most likely be to our advantage to pool our patents and advance this technology to the point where it is practical. I am wondering if anyone has already started doing this - buying patent rights with stock, in order to build a really good portfolio and get stuff done.

 
But I am kind of old-fashioned in that I wish that governments would fund basic research and leave technology to private parties. But that research doesn't seem to be happening as fast as it should.
 

Mike Briggs:

froggy:

there are a few companies out there like greenfuel   http://www.greenfuelonline.com/index.htm    that have prototype systems under deployment but they are not going to give you the kind of information you are requesting because of that capitalistic playground we live in. if they give you this information, who is going to buy their technology and how are they going to pay for more technology?

Exactly. Since there is no government funding for this field, researchers have to rely on trying to find private funding (which generally means talking to hundreds of people/companies claiming to be interested in investing in your research until you find one that is *actually* interested, and not just trying to get you to tell them all about your technology so they can go try to work on it themselves). No company is going to finance public domain research, since then there is no economic advantage to them funding it (since funding research generally means you work out agreements ahead of time as far as licensing. But, if the work becomes public domain, anyone can use it without needing a license). So, researchers aren't going to divulge any of their data, designs, etc. in this field.

Only way that will change is if the government actually starts funding research in this field again. 

my best guess is that a mutagenic algal system will need to be developed to jump the technical issues that face algae to energy technology.

That's one approach. IMO a better approach is just learning how to build photobioreactors much cheaper. Current designs weren't developed with economics in mind at all.

 

The reality comes down to people who want to get rich, no matter what the subject/product/service etc...  This cloak and dagger business is just a lure to get people to throw money at their projects, so they can get rich regardless of what they can actually do or produce.