BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

 Jonathan,

Perhaps you don't understand that I am talking about a method to develop a process where one has not been worked out.  There would be no point in Pepsi open sourcing their process - they already know how to make Pepsi.  No one knows how to produce oil from algae.  If people who know something about what is needed, make that information open, then many people can help them work out the details.  The sooner that happens, the sooner we overcome the petrobandits.

And the good news - even if some people want to keep secrets, the rest of us can develop the answers on our on - without them. 

If we make the information public, no one will be stealing it.  I hope they will adopt and adapt this technology.  The reason our gas prices have gone up about 300% is because of the demand from China and India.  If they start growing algae and harvesting oil, they will quit using petro oil and the petrobandits will have to lower their prices. 

What we need to do is acedemic research. Which species produces the most oil?  What does it need to be "feed"?  Will froth flotation harvest the algae?  Will reversing the osmotic pressure cause the cell to "give up" the oil?  Once we have settled these and a few dozen other questions, then companies can start developing their "Industrial Trade Secrets"

Well here's the problem with open source. This has happened many times in the software industry. Someone develops some software. Takes out a GPL license, essentially a copyright that says anybody can use their software, for free and can’t sell it.

So now commercial software producers come along and make something similar. They take the open source author to court. The open source guy will need $2,000,000 to defend his product. If they do have the money that $2 mil is just for openers. They'll demand that developer turn over all rights to them and just for snicks make them sign a no competition contract.

 

The nice thing about algae is it has shown almost impossible to genetically modify. There still is the potential for civil suit blackmail here though. The apleseed biodiesel thingy is probably safe as it is well published and known. "Common usage" stuff like that. So big oil would probably leave that alone.

 

What you really need is a community like the Green Parties and Factor Four in Europe behind you. Keep in mind it is not a sin to make money doing good for humanity. You think those UN Doctors working with AIDS patients in Africa are not being compensated?

I would really try and make contacts in Europe. You might be able to buy justice in the US but you try and jack European governments over in US courts and see how far you get. 

 Monday,

This is the ideal medium to publicize and distribute the ideas and methods.  By putting them here you are sending them around the world.  I haven't seen the user list here, but on my Yahoo group, we have people all around the world. 

I hope that will provide the facts for a defense.  Unfortunately, I am even more concerned than you about predator shysters - they may harrass any of us. 

 Oh yeah I don't want to disuade an open source movement. People just need to be aware.

I'll give you an example from the 70's in the US. It's going to be a vauge example so bare with me.

Somebody started to manufacture and sell or try to sell a device that would close the the "vent" (manifold) from a forced air natural gas furnace to let's say the rest of the house, the furnace being used to heat a home. This thing would keep some of the heat from escaping the "core" of the furnace while it was not "lit". Thus trapping heat in that "core".

Once the burners kicked in this flew would open again. Trapping the heat while not in use meant the fan that forces the heat would kick in sooner thus reducing the burn time and require less natural gas. What ever federal government agency that regulates the saftey of home furnaces delgated determning if this was safe to an industry association.

I forget the name of the association. You would think it would be paid for and run by people that manufacture heating systems or fire departments or something. Nope it was made up from experts from the natural gas producers and untilities that brought it your home.

Ok I know I use a lot of quotes but don't quote me on this but I think it was the Carter adminstration that made these devices legal to use. I think they are standard if not mandatory on natural gas furnaces. I'm pretty sure it was the attorney general that took these people to court to make these things legal to use. The Attorney General has that $2 million.

Once again bare with me. Let's say we figure out an effective PBR. Let's say we all agree that the algae will not live long outside the PBR. Let's say everyone but 70 scientist have proof that if the algae escape they will at worse make your lawn greener with no harmful effect to the enviroment.

Mark my words. Environmental groups and scientist that have a knack for getting into the media and scaring people will make it difficult for you to own and operate your own PBR. They will say things like "We spend millions to keep this algae out your drinking water." They will be well funded, Not by Green Peace, not by the Boy Scouts. They will be funded by people that don't want you making your own fuel.

They will tell you energy is dangerous stuff best left to professionals. The fellas always get their cut. You mess with their lively hood they will mess with yours. 

 

 Monday,

I agree with your concerns.

That is why I discourage speculations about GM algae.  That would be a handy way for the scare mongers to demonize us. 

 

 That's the great thing about algae, what are there like 3,600 or 36,000 documented species? Let them genetically modifies one that produces 95% lipids. We already have few doing 40%. All we need is a roof top PBR and something like a washing machine that extracts the oil and turns it into fuel.

Imagine you've just figured out a really effcient method of harvesting algae using a hot tub one of you're neighbors was throwing out. You post it all over the net.Two weeeks later 1/2 a dozen oil companies are going to back date research, aply for patents on the prcocess and sue you insisting they invented it not you.

 

 Monday,

I hope that by having 1500 people all over the globe working on it, we can forstall that.

But you are right, crooked shsyters can screw up most anything. 

 

Monday:

 Imagine you've just figured out a really effcient method of harvesting algae using a hot tub one of you're neighbors was throwing out. You post it all over the net.Two weeeks later 1/2 a dozen oil companies are going to back date research, aply for patents on the prcocess and sue you insisting they invented it not you.

And therein lies the whole benefit of the open source system. If the design of the bathtub extraction method is broadcast on the web today, any subsequent attack by any patent holder will have to prove that his "invention" was registered with the patents office prior to the broadcast.  It wo'nt matter how much research work he has done on his "invention" prior to the broadcast if he did not register his design/patent before the broadcast.

 Actualy no there have been patents awarded to people who did not file but later contested some one elses patent. And no I can't think of an example.

I think this is the version in english. Not sure but it had some good info.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/petites-nouvelles/manuel/grow.htm

Slippery:

Tech, if you are scavenging for ideas to help the poor then I hope this may be useful.

This page describes a much smaller village sized integrated alge farm, may be adaptable to only a couple acres of desert?

This mentions a practical back yard algae farm, also names free E-book (in French)with growth info.

thanks slippery and greg. my apologies for not replying sooner however being able to read forums is a little of a luxury although very interesting and usually very helpful. a little off topic... the pond with effluent idea is not so out-of-scope btw. we have a problem with lack of sanitation. the question is whether to use human waste for food production or fuel. and how to educate people on whichever process. using a hole in the ground and creating biogas is one solution. using a hole in the ground and filling it with algae is another. the issue is the location ie rural or urban and mindset of the locals, and how to do both ie food and fuel production. if we can separate the ammonia this can be used for agricultural production, and the solid waste can be used for biogas and fertiliser. a further consideration is algae production in arid zones - how much algae can be produced using moisture entrapment rather than open ponds? thanks again to everybody for your contributions. as to the intellectual property rights discussion.....there are so many perspectives on this that i think it boils down to: choose your own moral course and stick to it. i find it frustrating that companies (eg nanosolar) have developed ideas which could make such positive impacts on the lives of those in poor countries, however because of the "profit motive" will only implement those ideas where very large sums of money are involved and on a repeat basis! so we will fiddle around trying to duplicate the technology in a different way or end up using totally different ways of winning energy. with respect to marc, i am grateful he shares the ideas he does, and to everybody else who does. i couldn't do the work i do here without being able to "scavenge" the net for technology and ideas to make changes, even small, in people's lives here. if you would like to know more www.cleanupegypt.blogspot.com

hi bobby thanks for this. we are looking at how to use in ground latrines in a number of ways and this is certainly an option. cheers

Do you know of any serious efforts to create functional plants to produce algae.  I would be interested in investing in this area if I knew where to look.