I wanted to see if there were any other people here using this system. The more opinions about this topic the better. Your feedback about your experience or thoughts would be appreciated.

As of myself I have increased my MPG by 82% and my engine runs alot smoother. This is not a form of Biodiesel and Yes I have used Biodiesel in the past. I feel that it's important to spread the word about all forms of Alternative Fuels and methods to conserve energy.

I look forward to your replies

Are you increasing your MPG or decreasing your gas usage by supplementing it with H2? Where does the energy for electrolysis come from? Could you post raw numbers? (ex: liters of gasoline used, Miles traveled, liters of hydrogen used)

Looks like a scam to me. There's no info on the site about the process or what it actually is. 

Uhm, Scam, I find it interesting that people would think that this form of Alternative Fuel would be a Scam, especially in a Biodiesel forum - but i do appreciate your feedback. I'm a strong believer in Alternative Energy and this in my eyes is one of the most effective systems for vehicles.

 

At http://convert.water-for-gas.com you will find all this information in regards to the electolyzer and numbers can vay depending oh vehicle model, condition, year, and etc. Everything you need to know is in the books. Plus, if your not happy you can return them for a full refund.

 Adding water to fuels SHOULD be everydaylife system and WILL be in the future just to diminish oil consumption and waste gases as NOx'es.

 

But why should we divide water to components and burn them back to water again ? 

 This maybe a case of the person that did the website knows how/why this works & assumes that everyone else how/why it would. Also, the "meat" maybe further into the website than many people will go.

IMO, I'd have a section on that website on how/why/when  this works. Here is some of what I'd including:

Hydrogen = 

1. Detonation robs mpg & octane suppresses detonation.

3. To lean of a condition causes detonation.  

3. Hydrogen is 130+ octane.

4. Within OEM specs ones engine maybe running to lean(well known fact in engine performace circle) & the addition of a little H2 may end that detonation & increase mpg.

5. Some links to the above info. 

 Water injection =  

1. Detonation robs mpg & a rich condition suppresses detonation(mpg bad).

2. Water injection suppresses detonation & explain why it does. Many OEMs shipped their kerosene engines with water injection systems years ago for this reason.

3. A quick overview of WWII fighter planes. US had alot of av gas & used a rich condition causeing the use of more fuel per hour. Japan & German didn't have much av gas & used water injection to suppress detonation, therefore using less fuel per hour. Although there are some apples & orange in the mix, compare the gallons per hour of a Zero to a Wildcat.

4. Within OEM specs ones engine maybe running to lean(well known fact in engine performace circle) & the addition of a little water may end that detonation & increase mpg.    

5. Links to the above info. There have been thousand of pages written on water injection.

I assume that the black box is decreasing the number of milliseconds the the fuel injectors are injecting fuel. If so, the follow is true.

1. A shorter injection time leans out the mixture.   

2. Within OEM specs ones engine maybe running to rich(well known fact in engine performace circle). The blackbox would lean the mixture & increase mpg.

3. If installing the blackbox cause a lean condition anywhere in the working envolope of the engine than the hydrogen/water injection is needed.   

Tired of typing now. But there is every reason to believe that from an engineering aspect that this tech & info can/will increase mpg. It can also be worked with by most people who have the desire.

I have no $ interest in this. I have no solid idea as to how much oil would be saved per day in the US if everyone did this method. But if it was a 5% increase in mpg that would nearly 600,000 barrels a day in US fuel saving. The Japanese & Germans got greater than 5% savings, so 5% maybe possible.

Myself, if I wanted to play with a spark ign engine now, I'd scrap the OEM ECU. Put on 2 Megasqurits. One for fuel & one for water injection(to each cylinder).

Martin     

   

 

vainolaiho:

 Adding water to fuels SHOULD be everydaylife system and WILL be in the future just to diminish oil consumption and waste gases as NOx'es.

 

But why should we divide water to components and burn them back to water again ? 

 

I saw a news release the other day about a Chinese car corp that is going be selling a car in 2009 that does this. I didn't get many details about it. But it sounded like it will be a HCCI engine. There maybe a conection to GM & cheaper(etc) for GM to their HCCI engine in China. Seeing that Ford will be mass producing their MIT devoloped tech this year, I'd say GM(and others) will have to move fast.

As for diesel engines, I have read reports of direct injecting water into the engine. I have read that this maybe inplace in 2010. 

Martin     

Mike Briggs has already debunked this scam here and here. This isn't the first time this "idea" has shown up on BDNow, though this one comes equipped with a nice shiny website.

More here, and I'm sure, elsewhere too.

I find it funny that you would think this is a scam. From my hands on experience and research with Alternative Fuels I find this to be the most affordable and practical solution which people can intregrate Alternative Fuel to their vehicle as of today. This is just not the typical Biodiesel method which you are familiar with.

 Also, you have a nice Website too - Nice Heavy Duty Equipment you have for sale there.

 These books on the water4gas system are currently top ranked sellers in the Alternative Fuel, so judge for yourself

Maybe you could say 'Alternative Fuels' a few more times Andres?

This is bunk science, comon fella. HHO? You think you can make enough electrolysis H from your 12v battery and a quart of water to give you over 100% increase in fuel economy? Silly!  At least Nanobacteria and vacuum has some imagination, this idea doesnt even merit a conversation. I suppose you also have a magnet motor to sell me, eh?

 

 

This is funny, folks coming here trying to scam other folks.

Hydrogen is a carrier of energy, not a producer. At best the efficiency is 25%, meaning it takes 4 units of energy input to get 1 energy output. So take a hike Andres, this scam has been going on for decades.

Do you have any statistics from, say, Amazon.com or something to back this up? Or are you just talking out the backside?

andres101:

 These books on the water4gas system are currently top ranked sellers in the Alternative Fuel, so judge for yourself

 

 The system being sold is not a Alternative Fuel system. It is to correct an existing lean condition that is causing detonation. I assume that the blackbox creates a lean condition & then the water injection prevents detonation.

They do bury that info & one must know something about how engines work. It isn't junk science. But it isn't an Alternative Fuel either. I don't believe the % increases that are stated.   

If one is interested in alt fuels for IC engines they really should have a big interest in how IC engines work & know the history of IC engine evolution. Dr. Franz Fischer(the F of the FT process) did, read his work. 

As the gentleman from Finland said, all engines should & will have the water injection part. Using H2 for an octane increase, I don't know how far one can go with that. Water injection into a diesel engine will decrease the NOx & keep the engine cleaner. 

Martin        

 

perotter:

 The system being sold is not a Alternative Fuel system. It is to correct an existing lean condition that is causing detonation. I assume that the blackbox creates a lean condition & then the water injection prevents detonation.

Martin, they are clearly trying to sell electrolysis system. Here and click on 'how it works', they discribe their electroysis system. They even discribe it as a 'hydrogen on demand' system. This system discribed by the spammer is not a water injection system like the one you discribe which may or maynot have value.

Ok - Martin thank you for your feedback - someone who understands. My percentage, which stated is the best I have seen from my own experience. I tell people common results are between 10-50% - uh think I heard someone say 25% your in the common ballpark. Your Right it's not directly an Alternative Fuel, but more of an Alternative Energy. If I started speaking to people in scientific jargon from the get go they would just mentally shut down due to having no understanding of what I'm talking about - Most People understand common terms like Alternative Fuel and gain interest.

What I realize people are pretty smart about these topics in here, in fact almost too smart and for this reason some of you find this hard to believe - You Over Think It.

This product is over seen by ClickBank, The largest publisher/merchant account representative on the market. This company would not tolerate being involved with a Scam - worthy note since people like to throw this word around.

andres101:

 uh think I heard someone say 25% your in the common ballpark.

My you are a spinner/spammer. I said it takes 4 units of energy input to get 1 unit of energy output converting water to hydrogen, or put another way 25% efficiency. That 4 units of energy comes from the engine burning gas, it is a net negative like driving up hill all day.

 

 Andres, we have a pretty smart group here. Why don't you try us with the "scientific jargon", and while you're at it, try using capital letters correctly.

andres101:

  Ok - Martin thank you for your feedback - someone who understands.

Martin was not giving you feedback and as soon as he reads your website, he will also agree with me and the others in calling you and water4gas a scam.

andres101:

If I started speaking to people in scientific jargon from the get go they would just mentally shut down due to having no understanding of what I'm talking about - Most People understand common terms like Alternative Fuel and gain interest. 

I agree with Nate, we are not 'most people' here. Im begging you... throw around some scientific jargon and let see what happens.  

 

perotter:

 This maybe a case of the person that did the website knows how/why this works & assumes that everyone else how/why it would. Also, the "meat" maybe further into the website than many people will go.

I'd actually say it's more of a case of the original poster (who runs the fuel4gas website he linked to) not understanding basic thermodynamics, and hoping potential customers don't either.

IMO, I'd have a section on that website on how/why/when  this works. Here is some of what I'd including:

Hydrogen = 

1. Detonation robs mpg & octane suppresses detonation.

3. To lean of a condition causes detonation.  

3. Hydrogen is 130+ octane.

4. Within OEM specs ones engine maybe running to lean(well known fact in engine performace circle) & the addition of a little H2 may end that detonation & increase mpg.

5. Some links to the above info. 

Increasing the octane to suppress detonation can provide a marginal boost in efficiency - nowhere near the gains claimed on those pages (more like on the order of 5-10% at best), and likely not enough to offset the inefficiency of electrolysis. Hell, the second page linked claims you can run a car entirely on water. It's a shame so many people have no understanding of basic thermodynamics (not referring to you, rather to the people who market these electrolyzed water systems).

Yes, water injection can provide some helpful benefits - claiming that you can use water as fuel, or even run a car entirely on water, is pure BS though. 

andres101:

I find it funny that you would think this is a scam.

I find it insulting that you would think we have no understanding of thermodynamics.

 These books on the water4gas system are currently top ranked sellers in the Alternative Fuel, so judge for yourself

More evidence that the general public is easily duped. You need to find a less well educated audience to market your cr*p to, we're not idiots here.