BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

"( Huangchang, You're a moron. Good job for hearing only what you wanted to hear - work on your English comprehension.) "

Speaking of morons ... how's your Chinese ? We have this thing within the homebased biodiesel community that is called mutual respect for a common goal and hobby. Too bad some people missed out of their portion.

And we still don't have a real world working model to gauge, just rhetoric and promotional salesmanship from someone who claims to not represent the company.

Has anyone anywhere actually seen a single litre produced from this company or are we to assume that given how great the opportunity is that no actual physical evidence is required, and we'd be follish to miss out on giving them money to further their investment porfolio ? I, for one, am far from convinced, and after seeing the quality of responses received from a non representative investor (<-assuming a fact not in evidence) I am not altogerther certain I want to be.

SI,

Why would you call anybody a moron when he is just pointing out an obvious question that needed to be asked and for which, as far as the asker was concerned, was not answered satisfactorily.

If you failed to ask that question and now feel obliged to defend your investment then I really think the cap is on your head. If it fits, wear it.

This guy called the company, Asked the question, and was told they were looking at national buyers, however chose to completely ignore the part about having more than enough local and regional customers, and then went to the various discussions and repeatedly post his misinformation in an attempt to smear the company. Thats my problem.

Any investor that has the money to put down will either get involved or weed themselves out either by their own intelligence, or by their own ignorance by asking the right questions and making the right decisions - eitherway, if they get involved or not - they made the decision that is completely appropriate and perfectly right for themselves, without anyone here's efforts - positive or negative.

 Anyways - really - im done having a discussion on these boards. It was entertaining for a short while, now its just annoying.

Houng,

 

Would you like to ask SUNX where they are going to source their feed stock from.

Mr Sunxinvestor does not know or because he has not asked the question, because he is afraid it may be Palm Oil .

That would be 300 000 litres a month x the 100 or so current investors and up to 330 investors as per the company web site. I wonder where they are going to source all that oil.

 I stumbled upon this thread (strangely it's the first link listed when doing a google search for sunx energy) and thought I'd offer my opinion as a former investor up until the first quarter of this year.  Overall, I think Sunx has good intentions at heart and are not out to swindle anyone intentionally, the problem in my opinion are the 2 founders and CEO running the whole operation suffers from a serious lack of business experience and acumen.  Granted, they did hire on a third person that seems to know what he is doing at least based on paper and past experience but in my opinion, the damage was already done.  The two biggest problems being a serious lack of communication and being very vague and avoidant of various questions to the point of being flat out deceptive and dishonest.  I would like to go into details and examples but Sunx has a very strong reputation of being litigious and while I don't think they can afford to instigate any lawsuits, I don't even want the potential dealing with sunx threats.  But I don't want any potential investors going in without knowing what I wish I now know about the company, so feel free to send me a private message and I will try to help you out as much as possible.  

 As for "sunxinvestor" I'm pretty sure it is the same guy on Sunx's private forum that basically verbally abuses anyone that say anything remotely negative about sunx or even raises any doubts or concerns.  It got to the point that I seriously thought that this guy worked for Sunx and there are a couple of other guys on the sunx forum that fit my definition of blind and ignorant to the point of being comical and almost unbelievable.  It made me wonder exactly how much Kool Aid they drank on their initial Sunx visit.  

I went to the SUNX Energy Inc. headquarters 19889 96^th Ave.   Langley, B.C. V1M3C7 604-888-6101 . I went there under the understanding that I was meeting with them to talk about purchasing a plant franchise. When it was time for me to be picked up there was a group of investors waiting for the same meeting as me. SUNX shuttled all of us the Sunx headcounters that was in a shopping center. Behind a car repair shop.  I listened to the pitch that was given to all of us by the salesman named Chris Mackenzie “Vice President” Sunx Energy Inc and it was very interesting. The other potential investors that were at the same meeting as I were very intelligent and came from a variety of different background, one potential investor was a Bio chemist; another was from the ethanol industry. SunX answered all the questions and concerns we all had. They had an answer for anything we asked. But at the same time they would give a discloser leaving them a way out. We were not allowed to tour the area where they were working on the Algae. They did take us to another place were another company they owned made the equipment they we were going to use in our plant. The funny thing was they had broachers at the front desk when we all walked in, that showed what price they were selling the same equipment they were selling us but it was much less than what they wanted us to pay.  We were told that they were about 45 days away from signing a deal with VeraSun Energy they are one of the largest ethanol producers in the U.S. The reason SunX is trying to get the deal with VeraSun Energy was because they want to use distillers grain “the byproduct of ethanol” to extract the oil from it and use it to make Biodiesel Fuel.  Then we were told they were working on the algae to oil but it was not ready yet and it “SHOULD” be ready within 5yrs. Our Plants in the begging were to processes the oil that SunX got from the distillers grain from VeraSun Energy. And after the algae to oil was ready to go, they would then use it instead of the distiller’s grain. There were many red flags that jumped out at me about SunX after the meeting I had with them. I believe most of the other potential investors at the same meeting as I was, went away unsure.  I will do my best to list all the things keeping me from sending them any money. We were told at the meeting how James Stephenson is one of the owners and had written some books about business. So I looked up what books he wrote and one of them was “202 things you Can Buy and Sell For Big Profits. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=James%20Stephenson  . He was selling us just a business idea.  The most important thing that made me say no was that they told us they were 45 days away from signing a deal with Verasun Energy to buy all the distillers grain from them. That is the KEY to making this work. Without a source to get the oil the plants were not going to be making any biodiesel fuel anytime soon.   I wanted to know more about if SunX could get the distillers grain or any other product to make to Biodiesel fuel so I got on the internet and started reading about Verasun and to see if I could find anything linking SunX to Verasun Energy.  Remember we were told that they were 45days away from signing a deal with Verasun.  What I found was that Verasun Energy On March 31, 2008, bought US BioEnergy Corporation so they could make Biodiesel fuel not SunX.  All the distillers grain produced from Verasun seemed to be going to BioEnergy Corp because Verasun Energy owns BioEnergy. The whole reason it seems Verasun Energy bought BioEnergy was to make biodiesel fuel. I don’t see how SunX is claiming they are 45days away from inking a deal with Verasun to buy all the distillers grain when Verasun just bought their own Biodiesel Company. Here are some links http://sg.us.biz.yahoo.com/e/080404/13323418-k.html http://sg.us.biz.yahoo.com/e/080404/13323418-k.html   http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Verasun_Energy_(VSE) http://www.verasun.com/PDF/2007EthanolFactBook.pdf Ok let’s go past the fact that Verasun now has its own biodiesel company, I don’t believe that SunX can come up with the amount of money needed to buy the distillers grain for over 100 plants. Even if they got it at an unbelievable price it would cost SunX over 200million dollars. I did see a nice Black H-1 at the company that makes the equipment that SunX Owners also own. And a nice Rolex on his arm but the last I checked SunX is 3yr old company so I doubt very much they have that kind of money. They made it real clear that when we gave them the 50,000 deposit that they were to use the money for SunX that means into the pockets of the owners. I wish they were for real and I may be wrong. If anyone can prove me wrong or show me that they can do all this please let me know. But as of now, I see too many holes in the story they give.

 

One of the problems with investing is that there is never the 'other side'. Here is what I mean;

SUNX has these presentations and PR and pay people to talk up the stock. But who has the interest and the $ for the other side of the sales pitch saying this Co sux and to run away... The answer is that the other side does not have the force behind a well paid shill and the ma and pa investors is left wondering. Ma and pa can go hire someone but ofc that would limit their returns and ability to multi invest or as some call, diversify.

This is why Nate, BDN and the like are so important. In marketing terms, forums like these give; the innovators, the early adoptors and the majority a place to talk and compare notes. Its a new day for the ma and pa investors, as it should be. Thanks Nate. Thanks Kinvestments. Thanks nyaa304.

Thank you for the informative post Kinvestments.  I have not visited the Sunx headquarters.   I do have some intimate knowledge of their operation and processes.  I am neither a shill for Sunx nor an employee.  I have business dealings with one of their plant owners, but by no means am I a Sunx expert.  I will also not engage in any disruptive/unproductive content here as I run several businesses and have very little time for the pandering I read on this and other biodiesel blogs.  I think the treatment Sunxinvestor received here is pathetic.  I do not know Sunxinvestor and would have chosen to handle things differently, but certainly can understand the level of frustration after reading through the postings. 

I do want to respond to some of what you wrote Kinvestments.  It is my understanding that the original Sunx plan revolved around the bulk purchasing of soy as feedstock.  The plan went south when the price of soy doubled in 2007.  The Sunx buisness model failed to account for such an increase.  Sunx decided to put a hold on moving forward until a reasonable solution was apparent.  This showed good common sense and judgment on Sunx' part IMO.  Some investors were understandably put off and dissapointed by this.  Some were undercapitalized and couldn't afford to wait.  A small vocal group of these investors began to taunt Sunx claiming Sunx lied, primarily about the purchase of soy futures as a way to offset the price increase.  Sunx denied ever promising to buy soy futures contracts.  In fact, what Sunx had explained to their investors was they intended to deal with future price increases by negoitating favorable bulk purchasing agreements.  However, the meteoric rise in commodities rendered that plan moot.

The Sunx plan all along was to convert to algae oil.  It is expected with reasonable scholarship that processes are being developed to convert unlimited quantities of algae to oil within a 5 year period of time.  Sunx is a part of that ongoing research and I am told that they have already extracted large sums of algae oil and converted it to biodiesel.  I cannot prove that assertion. 

The Sunx distillers grain plan is fairly recent.  I am not aware that VeraSun plans on producing biodiesel but rather they plan on producing corn oil from their ethanol by-product and then sell it on the open market.  The VeraSun website confirms this.   The links you provide do not suggest or assert that VeraSun plans on producing biodiesel.  They state that VeraSun plans on extracting corn oil from dried distillers grain for "use in biodiesel production".  This corn oil will be sold to biodiesel producers as I have stated above.  It stands to reason that Sunx is negotiating to purchase the oil. 

The US BioEnergy and VeraSun merger was completed on March 31, 2008.  This merger makes VeraSun one of the top ethanol producers in the country.  They do not produce biodiesel as far as I can tell.  

That's it for now. 

 

  

 Be very careful is all I have to say to any potential investors.  I was a former investor and got out and it was not due to the fact that I was undercapitalized but the fact that certain new information came out when they dropped the bomb that they were putting a hold on the construction.  New information such as that they have secured only a 2-3% market discount on feedstock, information that they did not disclose at any point in the intial meeting or meetings prior to the bad news.  When constantly asked by numerous investors how they have "secured 5 years worth of feedstock" they answer was always that it was taken care of and that they had commodities traders working for them - this was straight out of Chris McKenzie's mouth.  There is a huge difference between "securing 5 years worth of feedstock" vs. "securing a 2-3% discount on feedstock for 5 years".  

Another possible red flag: http://www.strangfordlough.com/microbrewery.pdf   

now I'm not a hundred percent sure its the same guys but the business model/concept and style of business is exactly the same.  The sales rep for Strangford Lough is also called Chris McKenzie, and they are also located right next door to sunx.  Which raises the question of how does Sunx plan to both open 100 biodiesel plants across the US and also open 100 microbreweries at the same time.  Last I heard there were only 6 people on staff at Sunx including the receptionist and the office manager.   

They have been advertising their Total Fraud  on Craigslist.  I am surprised a State Atty. General hasn't locked them up yet.

 

Can you be more specific and explain why you believe Sunx is a "total fraud"?  I've read the preceeding trail and can find nothing concrete only speculation.