BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

I am doing a research paper on why it is taking the government so long to make significant headway in the field of alternative fuels.  If anyone has any information that might be of any use, it would be greatly apprecieated.  I am also looking for a way to see "Who Killed The Electric Car," so if anyone has anything on that then great.

All Help Is Greatly Appecieated!

CroatianKing90 

You should be able to rent or download "Who Killed". 

There has been significant headway in alternative fuels. In 2002, 15 million gallons of biodiesel were sold commercially. In 2006, it was 750 million.

CroatianKing90:

I am doing a research paper on why it is taking the government so long to make significant headway in the field of alternative fuels. 

It is not the governments job or place to find alrernate fuels. It is purely market driven.

Politicians are drunk on the profits of big oil. I like the quote made by a SVO speaker when he said "BioDiesel makes a difference in my world"

so you guys are saying that the only thing holding back research is the influence of oil companys?
 

Curtis:

  " [xyz] makes a difference in my world" 

sometimes the little picture is the most important. WVO, wave, wind, biogas, biomass, ... power makes sense b/c it generates $ and much needed e'. No its not gonna solve all the woes of the world but it does in my little world. Problems are solved 1 solution at a time.

By the way... Im with Dereck, its not up to the gov but up to the people to pay for alt energy. Its not a technical issue, its a cost issue. So to answer your question of 'Why Is It Taking So Long' , its because the cost of dirty energy is too low. If oil was $400/bbl, surely no one will be using it as a fuel because innovation will have been able to move you from point A to B for cheaper than $400/bbl gaz can.

 Alternative fuels are not going to really start becoming popular until it makes more sense for car makers and politicians to stop taking money from big oil. That is why BD is so great because you don't need a special car to run it, it is up to the person who owns the diesel vehicle what they want to run it on. It is obvious that the (dozens of prototypes built and ready for production line) EV electric car was pulled because of some last minute decision by the manufacturer, i.e. money accepted from the oil companies.... I'm not saying this is the only possible reason but in my eyes it was very likely and the most plausible.

Langstroth:

 Alternative fuels are not going to really start becoming popular until it makes more sense for car makers and politicians to stop taking money from big oil. That is why BD is so great because you don't need a special car to run it, it is up to the person who owns the diesel vehicle what they want to run it on. It is obvious that the (dozens of prototypes built and ready for production line) EV electric car was pulled because of some last minute decision by the manufacturer, i.e. money accepted from the oil companies.... I'm not saying this is the only possible reason but in my eyes it was very likely and the most plausible.

Get realistic, oil companies have nothing to do with canning the EV, it is the market that says no-way-jose. No one in their right mind is going to pay $30K to $100K for an EV that can only go 40 to 100 miles per charge, takes several hours to re-charge, and spend another $10K to replace batteries every few years.

dereckbc, 

Maybe its not worth it now, but look 10 years from now, when the batteries are much better.  Killing it now would put them that much farther behind, and off the minds of the oil companys.

CroatianKing90

EV's are still where they were10, 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Stuck behind a huge barrier called batteries. We are not talking about a major leap in technology, a quantumn leap is needed like sending man to Mars kind of leap. Right now we are not even 10% there in 150 years of battery development.

Before you go bashing Oil and Gas companies care to guess who the two biggest manufactures of Sloar PV Cells are?

I bet you would never ever dream of saying Shell Oil and British Petrolleum.

Also would you care to guess who is investing the most money in research and development in renwable fuels like BD? I am not talking about a few piddly $million, $10 million, or $100 million. Let's try $10's of billions just between XOM and COP alone for 2008.

dereckbc:

CroatianKing90

EV's are still where they were10, 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Stuck behind a huge barrier called batteries. We are not talking about a major leap in technology, a quantumn leap is needed like sending man to Mars kind of leap. Right now we are not even 10% there in 150 years of battery development.

Simply not true.  Electric cars and batteries are nowhere near where they were 10 years ago.  Ever heard of the tesla roadster, or the wrightspeed x1?   The tesla was co-designed by lotus will go 0-60 in 4 sec, go 220 miles on a charge (over 100 miles if you're driving like a sports car), fully recharge at home in 3 hrs, and just started production this month. Granted it is $98k but this is their first car, they will be coming out with a passenger car in a few years.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

If you're wondering if they can survive the first production year was sold-out well before production started. 

But I do agree with you that its the consumer's responsibilty in America to look toward alternative fuels.  I guess that's one thing about the freedoms of capitalism and democracy is that the people have to be smart enough to know whats best for them. 

elirentz:

Simply not true. Electric cars and batteries are nowhere near where they were 10 years ago.

elirentz:

Ever heard of the tesla roadster, or the wrightspeed x1?   The tesla was co-designed by lotus will go 0-60 in 4 sec, go 220 miles on a charge (over 100 miles if you're driving like a sports car), fully recharge at home in 3 hrs, and just started production this month. Granted it is $98k but this is their first car, they will be coming out with a passenger car in a few years.

 However Li-Ion batteries are a very poor choice for EV because of the di-advantages, and those disadvantages are huge.

dereckbc:

So for an EV to become a viable option, there has to be a quantum leap in battery technology.

Refer back to my Graphene article.

dereckbc:

Even if that should ever be solved, not likely, there is still another huge obstacle that will take anoither 30 to 50 years to fix; the USA electrical generation capacity and distribution system will have to be completely overhauled and rebuilt to meet the demand for large scale use.

Again, Graphene to the rescue.

dereckbc:

There has been no significant advances in batteries in the past 30 years ....

I suppose that depends on what you consider "significant."  For example, see http://www.a123systems.com/.  It appears that what they're already producing is significantly better than what we've had before in terms of power capacity, recharge times, and battery lifespan.  These are early successes, and their plans involve going much further down this path.

Within a few years, I expect to see practical all-electric vehicles with substantial range (300+ miles) that will fully recharge in less than 20 minutes.  Zap is already working on one such vehicle in collaboration with Lotus, and the projected retail price is $60k initially.  That's a pretty high price tag, although not prohibitive, and it will come down as the technology evolves, and especially as they're able to achieve economies of scale due to market demand.

I look forward to having an all-electric vehicle that I'll recharge using solar power.

Bill 

goochb:

dereckbc:

There has been no significant advances in batteries in the past 30 years ....

 

I suppose that depends on what you consider "significant."  For example, see http://www.a123systems.com/.  It appears that what they're already producing is significantly better than what we've had before in terms of power capacity, recharge times, and battery lifespan.  These are early successes, and their plans involve going much further down this path.

Within a few years, I expect to see practical all-electric vehicles with substantial range (300+ miles) that will fully recharge in less than 20 minutes.  Zap is already working on one such vehicle in collaboration with Lotus, and the projected retail price is $60k initially.  That's a pretty high price tag, although not prohibitive, and it will come down as the technology evolves, and especially as they're able to achieve economies of scale due to market demand.

I look forward to having an all-electric vehicle that I'll recharge using solar power.

Bill 

So I went to the site and could not find one single specification, maybe I missed it, but what I did see is all marketing hype. I have been in the electrical industry for 30 years in both electric utility and telecom with a huge amount of experience in battery plant design.

Since the first lead acid batteries were designed some 150 years ago, Li-Ion has about doubled the density of the first design from 150 years ago, and that is not saying much. That is about 1/10th of where it needs to be, and Li-Ion ain't going to do it anytime in our life span. There is only one battery I know of that can deliver that kind of capacity, and you cannot afford Plutonium RTG's. Not to mention how heavy they are.

For a lightweight EV a battery needs to be able to store about 100 Kwh minimum of energy to be feasible for practical use. So please tell me how in the world you expect a solar PV system to be able to deliver that amount of power when you come home at night after the sun has set? Even if you are a night worker; do you have any idea how big of an array it would take to deliver 100 KWH in 4 hours the average sun-hour-day (aka solar insolation). Well I can, it would take about a 38,000 watt array at a cost of $350,000+

I do know of about a half dozen companies working on Silicon Porous Membrane battery technology using methanol as an electrolyte, that claims to have 10 to 20 times the density of Li-Ion, but they have not been able to produce a single commercial unit for sale to date in 10 years of trying, and most are in deep financial trouble.

dereckbc:

So I went to the site and could not find one single specification, maybe I missed it, but what I did see is all marketing hype.

Their spec sheet for the smaller "developer's kit" cell that you can order from them today is available at http://a123systems.textdriven.com/product/pdf/1/ANR26650M1_Datasheet_NOV_2007.pdf 

dereckbc:

These are just a few of Li-Ion drawbacks and there are many more. So for an EV to become a viable option, there has to be a quantum leap in battery technology. Even if that should ever be solved, not likely, there is still another huge obstacle that will take anoither 30 to 50 years to fix; the USA electrical generation capacity and distribution system will have to be completely overhauled and rebuilt to meet the demand for large scale use.

I realize their are limitations to li-ion batteries but according to Tesla their battery pack will last 50k miles over 5 years.  They admit the limitations and design their battery packs accordingly with a user adjustable charge level and heat and cooling systems, I'm sure you already know that.  I'm sure as soon as there is a commercially available better option they will adopt it or have it as an option.

I realize that the tesla is no great advancement battery technology but it apears to finally be a viable option for a fast daily driveable EV with decent range.  A range, power, and charge capabilty that has yet to be available in a production car.  I guess what I'm saying is that EV's don't need 150 years of advancement to become useful the tesla can easily serve as a commuting car, and cars like the tesla do nothing but spark the interest and market in EV's.  Where the money goes so does the technology.

You're right though Electric cars aren't a total solution with the current power systems  

As Telsa states; “5-years or 50,000 miles” supports my statement of Li-Ion 20% capacity degration per year. When the car is first bought it might get 200 miles per charge, but by the time the 5^th year rolls around I would wager just a few miles per charge.

I really like the idea of EV’s, IMO they have a lot more potential than liquid alternative renewable fuels. At today’s current electric rates an EV per mile fuel cost range from 2 to 7 cents per mile. There is nothing that even comes close to that.

greed