BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

I just got a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0L CRD and am hoping/planning to run BD in it.

I poked around under the car and around the engine today.  I was thinking I might add a Racor filter/water separator/heater and was looking for a good place to mount it.  I was also trying to see what the fuel lines looked liked.

 What I found out was that the Jeep has steel fuel lines from the tank up to the engine bay.  Then a short run of rubber hose within a steel braided sheeth, then some more steel lines, then a short run (about 3 inches) of rubber to the filter and another peiece of rubber from the filter to the injection pump.

The filter itself is located within the V of the V-6 moto.  If I was to mount another filter, I wouldn't want to cutn any of the stock line to do it, so I would route the fuel line from the end of the steel line near the stock filter to the an open area on the firewall opposite the glovebox, then back to the stock filter.

However, I'm starting to think this would be a waste.  Given the location of the stock filter, it gets pretty warm from the engine heat.  Also, the vehicle is new, so there isn't any sludge from dino in the tank. 

I like the idea of running my own in line filter before the engine filter and also in keeping the BD warm in the winter.  

I really want to run BD (B99 preferably), but want to make sure I don't do any damage to injection pump given that Chrysler most likely won't cover it under warrantee.  Also, I hope to make my own BD, so there won't be a fule company to blame either.

 So, am I just being paranoid?

 Any recommendations?

 Thanks,

 Congrates on your new MB ... oh I mean Chysler Jeep Grand Cheorkee CRD. (I can keep these 'mash-ups' straight) 

Have you considered just adding 'heat' to the steel fuel line runs? This could be just an add-on electric heat tape type which could be removed without damage to the 'new' vehicle. The electric heat would warm the fuel prior to starting if you want and probably thin your B99 in colder weather prior to getting to the fuel filter. Unless you keep your Jeep in a warmer garage in the winter though, I would still be careful if temps in the fuel tank get much below 25 - 30 degrees F. Most of my testing of B100 shows it will 'milk' at around those temps. 

What about the DPF?  I got these responses on a Jeep forum:

"From what I hear, the biggest problem with running BD in these modern diesels with the DPFs is with the regeneration cycle. Apparently running BD that hot can lead it to coat the cylinder walls with residue of some sort. "

There are 2 issues w/ running bio 1) injection system durability and 2) oil dilution caused by the post injections necessary for DPF regen. A secondary filter and more importantly water separator will help with issue 1) but don't count on any warranty coverage when they find out you've run more than B5.

Issue 2) is the bigger deal: to heat the DPF for a regen this engine relies on in-cylinder post injection... a late injection way after TDC puts additional HC's in the exhaust to oxidize in the first cat and create heat for the regen. High % bio fuels have a tendancy to get into the crankcase via wall wetting, will dilute the oil, then prematurely oxidize the oil creating sludge.

While in general terms bio vs conv will produce less particulate with the same calibration, it still produces PM and you will still have to regen the DPF with some frequency. DPF regens are triggered by exceeding a set differential pressure across the DPF (measured with a sensor). As it fills up, restriction goes up.

Diesel Particulate Filter ... DPF. Sorry I don't have experience with this and don't want to suggest something wrong.

I don't have an 08, but I do have an 07.  Have recently tried to run a little less than 20% BD.  Although the truck runs great, I did set off an engine code (haven't had it diagnosed yet).  My guess is the the DPM sensor.  Any word on how to beat this problem?  I certainly don't want to ruin the engine, but not using BD is rediculous!

 Thanks

Regarding DPF on these Jeeps, they do not have them. This 3.0L Benz motor was suppose to be a blutec motor but Chrysler is no longer owned by Daimler. For that reason they slipped these Jeeps their older engnies without any 2010 emission equipment. Clearly this motor will be one of the last build with out it. Regardless they are warrented for B20. However, with that said, a lot of guys on other sites with these same cars are running B100 with no problems.

 Erik

I am thinking about buying an 07 Grand Cherokee CRD and would like to run it on b100.Would this be asking for trouble?  Eric can you list a few of the other sites that you reffered to? Thanks in advance! Bruce                                                  

 Hey Bruce,

 Listen buddy google is a better friend than myself. All in all, I knew a guy with a CRD Jeep Cherokee 4X4. I asked if his SUV had a blutec in it and he told me what Daimler did was 3.0L CRD instead of running a blutec motor because Mercedes Benz is no longer apart of the Chrysler family.  He also told me that he fills up with B20 and no more then that because of the warrenty. If I find anything on the net about this engine or SUV I will let you know. Regarding emissions, I know it does not have a DPF on it because the 2010 emission standards since the law will not take effect for another 2 years. This has given Mercedes a chance to get rid of some older diesel while they still have the chance. 

 Off topic but related. Elgin Sweeper in Elgin, IL is sending their street sweepers overseas with older diesel motors because they are no longer compliant here in the states. So in a nutshell, we dump old stuff like in places such as China. The Germans dump their old stuff on us. Somewhere in the world of globalization, a country or a company is willing to buy your product.

Erik 

Erik, thankyou for the information. I will also try to google it.      Bruce                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/pressreleases/pas/20060727_jeepgrandcherokee.pdf

 I found that intresting. This is regarding the different blends of biodiesel in the SUV, also they mention the existin fuel system needs to be modifed  in order to properly run B100.

Erik 

I'm also planning on buyinbg a used, (because of the CA emission laws), Grand Cherokee in the next few months and am particularly interested in the fact that biofuelsdude said that the '07s where produced WITHOUT a DPF, although all the literature states that they would come with it. How about the '08s? I'll try to find out from my dealer tomorrow what that is all about.

I Do think, however, that a DPF could cause problems with B100.

Thomas

 Hey Thomas,

    The DPF will have problems with biodiesel but a few duramax guys have reported using b100 for long periods of time without problems. One guy has reported using 12K straight miles of B100. How true this is I do not know.

      As for the Jeep Cherokee CRD. They do not have any of the 2010 emission equipment to my knowledge, which is why they are warrented to run B20. The link I posted in my last post says that there are certain parts in the fuel system that have to be converted to run B100.

     Mark my words, ether way, the Mercedes Benz CRD motor will be tossed for something compliant with 2010 emission standards. In California I've read that a used car is 7500 miles or greater. Personally I say hop the border to Oregon or Nevada and pick one up if you really like them. Wish I had the money to get one myself. Perfect for hauling used veggie oil, friends, and road trips.

Erik 

I alrady have three salesmen on it. One in Nevada, one in Michigan, (my in-laws live there) and one in California, (sometimes they pop up in auctions). The Overlands are REALLY hard to find.

The service tech at the dealership here in CA said he will look into it if there are ANY Grand Cherokees that where produced with the DPF for '07/'08.

Thomas

 No DPF. Why do you think they are 45 state legal? Bluetec, Diesel Trucks, future VW TDI all have the latest emission equipment and are 50 state legal. Shall we place bets against this diesel nerd? 

Definitely has a DPF.

I own an 08, have crawled under it and have seen the DPF with my own eyes. 

Alos, there's a bunch of info on the WK forum at jeepforums .com.

And, here's a pic of a DPF from another source. 

Finally, this is from the "Build Your Jeep" section of www.jeep.com:

• 4.7-Liter V8 Engine

  Incl.

• 5.7-Liter HEMI® Multi Displacement Engine

  $645

• 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel Engine	$1,655
  Package includes >>
  180-Ampere Alternator 800-Ampere Maintenance-Free Battery Dana 44/226MM Rear Axle Premium Insulation Group "3.0L Diesel" Badge 22-Gallon Fuel Tank Engine Block Heater Hydraulic Engine Cooling Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) 2 Additional Gallons of Diesel Fuel

Also, DFP and Urea injection are 2 different methods of dealing with emissions, although I suppose the could be combined. 

I'm interested in knowing the specific issues related to the fuel system.

Biofuelsdude:

Regardless they are warrented for B20.

The warranty for my 08 Grand Cherokee CRD only allows for B5, not B20.

Chrysler does allow for B20 in other vehicles (those with a Cummin, I believe), but even then only for fleets.  I susepect this is because they believe fleets will have more control over fuel quality and maintenance.

 I've been doing a lot of research on the use of BD in this vehicle.  I have found nothing regarding fuel system problems that are sepcific to this vehicle.  There are general problems for fuel sysmtes and the use of BD, primarily:

•   deteriation of fuel hoses
•   clogging of fuel filters, especially in cold weather
•   damage to injector pumps
  

This vehicle primarily uses metal fuel lines with only short runs of flexible line.  Given the required use of USLD and allowed use of B5, plus the fact that higher blends of BD are common on Europe, I suspect these fuel lines are not suscetiple to deteriation from BD.  In any case, even if they are, they are easy to get to and replace.

This vehicle uses a Boshc CP03 injector pump which is also used on a lot of other vehicles that have a good track reocrd of running high blends of BD.  I don't recall the exact vehicles, but they were either Ford or Dodge trucks.

From a fuel system perspective, I think the clogging of filters is the biggest concern.  I plan to install a heated 2 micron filter and water separator befor going to higher blends before the stock filter.  The heater will help with gelling issues just before hitting the pump, but won't help with gelling in the tank or lines up to the filter.  I live in Orgeon, and the winters aren't too cold.  Lost of people run B20 to B50 with no gelling or clouding.

Currently, by largest concern is the effect of the regneration cycle for the DPF on the engine oil.  I'm currently having my oil analyzed every 1,000 miles to get a baseline for the dillution of oil, impact on additives in the oil, and insoluble content (sludging) using B5.  Once I have a trend established (probably at 3,000 miles), I'll move to B20 and continue the oil anlaysis.  I am trying to determine at what point I should change the oil when running BD.  I'll post results when I have them.  So far, I have only one lab result back and it wil be a few more weeks before I submit my 2nd sample.

I just got back from the Jeep dealer . I looked at an '07' leftover Grand Cherokee. It does have the DPF.

Is it possible to disable the DPF without any sideaffects?

              Thanks Bruce

bruceb63:

Is it possible to disable the DPF without any sideaffects?

You would have to completely remove it.  If you did that, you would want to make sure the ECU never went into the regen cycle.  Probably just leaving both pressure lines open to the atmosphere would do it, or you could connect them together, or you could figure out whether the switch the pressure lines go to is normally on or off and either just disconnect it or short the connection to it.

This is just a guess on my part. 

Hi Guys,

Sorry to bring this post back to the top. But since I'm very close to purchase a 2007 Grand Cherokee Overland CRD, I was wondering if there have been any new development about the DPF and if it has to be dismantled for use with B100 or not. And if so how do you do it??

Thomas