BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

Hi Liberty, 

I may be mistaken here but I thought David Ramey used Butanol derived from the petroleum refining process.

Sippery,

In a sense, you are correct.

He made a 10,000 mile cross country trip using petro butanol.   (He continures to use butanol in his personal car and has had no problems.)

He advocates biobutanol as an energy solution.  He is attempting to patent and pilot test a new way of making biobutanol.

How about 400 gallons of ethanol per ton of biomass? That is what we are currently getting. Still in the lab but hopefully not for long.

400gal of ethanol x 86000BTU/gal = 344000000BTU per ton.

Most biomass is in the 6-9000BTU/lb range. Which means 9000BTU/lb x 2000lbs/ton = 18000000BTU/ton available.

Iogen claims to eventually be able to do ~ 110gal/ton of corn which is a high BTU grade of biomass.

So either your math is wrong or mine is wrong...  

I am trying to figure out what I am going to make out of all this algae I have.  First thoughts were Biodiesel from algae oil but now Im not too sure.  The more I read on the subject the less I see where anyone has gotten oil from the algae and if they have they are keeping the process secret.  I am not sure what strain of algae I have but it reproduces much faster than I could possibly harvest it.  I have 4 ponds full and all of my neighbors are ate up with it also.  I need to know what type yeast I should use to ferment the algae for ethanol.  I am building a still with 2 distillation towers that I think will work nicely.  Please help with all info you can on how to ferment into sugar, what yeast to use and all other helpful info.  I have 30 acres of small trees and brush (that I am clearing anyway) to use as fuel for still and if that runs out I plan to plant sugar cane for sugar and its biomasse for fuel.

the first thing you need to do is determine which algae you have growing. most oil bearing algae are marine (salt water) algae so before you get all wrapped up in this you will have to learn about the algae typew which you have available. and after that how much lipid the algae contain. I suggest you contact a local university  or lab to have them check it out for you.

 good luck and happy algae growing..

 Marc

 I noticed a booboo on my last post here... i want to clarify that i meant available sugars and starches not lipids for ethanol. dunaliela is a prime candidate for ethanol but the sugaes are complex though not impossible to process. the cellulostic fractions of some algae may be worth considering for cellulose hydrolysis into ethanol. certainly theres enough out there  to make this a possibility.

marc

Does ethanol pollute a lot more than biodiesal? I have heard that it is easier to make ethanol out of algae than it is to make biodiesal out of algae, but wouldn't it pollute a lot more? 

Equivalently, I think they are pretty much the same. One's gain is the other's loss kind of thing.

The real equation is more about where the ethanol and biodiesel comes from - is it palm olien grown on a rapidly decomposing peat bog, or sugarcane that the fertiliser is responsible for bleaching the Great Barrier Reef - and how does this compare to dinofuel, which is rapidly running out.

The benefits of bio-sourced fuels is they take out either as much, or more, than they eventually put in and are infinite. Dinofuel on the other hand is simply a few billion year old trapped sunlight energy, and there is a finite amount of it.

I think my ideal solution would be to think completely outside the square and have a symbiotic vehicle relationship in lifecycle terms. One vehicles powersupply's waste product would be used to power another vehicles powersupply, and vice versa, they would work in harmony to have a complete cycle - no single vehicle type can efficiently do this. Rather than 2 volvo drivers waving to each other on the road, a biodiesel car might wave to a glycerin-ethanol car, who might wave to a hydrogen car, who might wave to an algae car, who might wave to a biodiesel car...

 Demeter,

Ethanol is inherently low polluting - it is very pure and contains C H and O.  It does not contain as many BTUs per gallon as biodiesel.

(Reality note 1 - most current cars that burn ethanol, acutallly only burn up to E85.) 

(Reality note 2 - if we give the manufacturers a little time to react, they can eliminate almost all of the pollutants from almost any fuel, so this question is moot.  That is not to say it is easy - the engineers perform miracles.) 

oh okay I see. Well since you guys answered that question so well I have another one: How fast could a car that runs on algae fuel go? (essentially what I'm asking is how combustible is algae fuel?) Because I thought the point of using gasoline is (was)  that it is highly combustible; energizing the automobile to run very fast) 

alcohol( ETHANOL) is alcohol  no matter what its made from...except for butanol  (but thats another story)

 there are race cars routinely running on alcohol on the racing circuits  and have been for a number of years. there are also aircraft flying on it. (anhydrous )

Wow! That's quite amazing and that makes sense that they would run on that...

Sooo...If the government were to fully fund these companies who make fuel out of algae, would that cost as much as the war in iraq does, or a lot more? 

 Demeter,

To repeat, Audi won LeMans with a diesel - all the cars they passed were running gasoline - except the other Audi diesels.

(Reality note - Audi would have you arrested if you tried to put algae oil in their million dollar race car.)   

bemeter,

 If the gov were to take the money (not to count the lives lost) they are spending in a holy war that has been going on since the eleventh century (its not just about oil) if they took the money they are squandering on this criminal act thinly disquised as for the National security and put it into biofuels from algae and other resources within a year the life's blood of the middle east would be cut off and there would no longer be a middle eastern problem. and then our national security would be secure... But NOOOOO the haliburtonites will see to it that WE are bled dry while they sit and drink margaritas in miami with the Bin-ladins.(Yes  the word is that the bush' family's neighborsin miami  are the Binladins )  and the military industrial complex make billions. but whose to blame for our current state??? a complacent citizenry that bends over and takes it. while our best youth die needlessly and our economy is bled dry. Biofuels from algae and other alternative crops as well as waste streams can replace petro in short order ....witness the vidios just posted on this algae forum in case you dont beleive me... I watched all of the you-tube vidios with a lump of pride in my throat realising that that what I have always known and  have been preaching and working for is finally becoming a reality.

 I was lambasted by having used the slogan " the vision becomes reality" well theres the proof  for those naysayers that it is....

. in brazil alcohol powered cars are on the roads evryday both ford, general motors, mercedes benz and many other world class brands as well as the GOL car, a brazilian five passenger subcompact. . SO what excuse do our american automobile  manufacturors have for not making them available here? in the early eighties we were importing chevys from brazil that could run on 180 proof alcohol... thats moonshine grade alky that ANYONE could make. we even  developed a distillation system that could be tied into the hot water heater in peoples homes  that could produce one gallon per hour of fuel grade ethanol thats 24 gallons per day of fuel using the wasted heat from hot water heaters,after all, your domestic hot water heater runs 24 hours per day wether you use  or not why not save the heat energy it takes to distill alcohol at 174.9F by utilzing that heat  from the hotwater heater to reduce the energy needed for distillation? the delta T would only be ten to twenty degrees F in that scenario by keeping the  thermostat in the hotwater heater at140 to 160f .there goes the old arguement about energy in V/S energy out for ethanol.. we still offer the distillation column kit that we offered then called the LIBERATOR. any how we can win the energy wars and we can do it now  watch the vidio and see whats happening with algae ..AWESOME !!!

Marc - I understand your passion.

Its ironic that the Model T Ford was designed to run on ethanol, and the Diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Industries - and quite large ones at that, are maintaining vehicle standards the way they are via a host of methods.

To answer your question about why manufacturers are continuing to produce inefficient vehicles, in short, is market forces. Market forces breed standardisation and compliance, and this is a particular problem when solutions architects try to inject 'not a panacea', 'not the silver bullet', and 'will be a part of a range of solutions' style arguments in the case for biofuels.

A standard car has 4 wheels, a steering column, and guzzles petrol. Trying to change the opinions of millions of people is equivalent to trying to release a car that uses a joystick to steer it, or a car with 5 wheels. I'm not saying that it's an impossible task, just trying to adapt some analogies towards why it may be such a difficult one.

That said, keep on keeping up the good fight. Every head you turn, adds to the heads I turn, to the heads Liberty turns, to the heads Slippery turns.

 And I know you've turned a number of heads...

Yah i go to school with the Fords and live in a suburb of Detroit. I'm reminded every day of the desperate factory workers who go along with what's happening in the U.S. because they need to make some sort of money...The Fords don't give a shit, believe me...I think the media wastes too much time broadcasting obvious information such as rising gas prices and how they are going to keep rising (Like we're not aware of that already)..if only these alternative fuel sources were given more attention.

Marc,

I'm glad for the pride you now feel and for the realization of your vision.   There's a good reason that people are catching on now and you can probably take further pride that people will be getting more involved and proactive.   Your legacy left here and other places should serve, for years to come, as enlightenment and practical information. 

Consider the potential longevity of information on the net.  It's possible to think of your contributions enduring on and on.

Regards,

Gary 

 Marc I gotta disagree with ya on the w/h running 24 hrs a day, I'm not 100% sure but i'm guessing they actually run about 8 as for resetting the thermostat I have personally never set one over 160 Deg. I think it has something to do with the pop off valve being set somewhere around 180 or 185. Again I'm not 100% sure and i should know cuz I've been a master electrician for 30 years and have set and replaced many of them but just haven't messed with one in a long time. I do however agree with just about everything else you say, it's time for we the people get back in control.

As one of the better implementations, I also thought that processing the algae for biodiesel and keeping the ethanol in the loop was paramount and to be desired.

In the algae_from_oil group at yahoo, within the files area sits the quiet little folder named Mozambique.   It's worth a read and details such an exercise.   It perhaps has its place in algae lore and I think many in this thread might appreciate it.