Hello to everybody! I have been reading this forum for more than year and have learned quite a lot from you all. First about myself. I have been working on laboratory scale and little bit larger scale (100 l fermenters) lately, to develop simple and economical (low energy input) farm-scale technology to produce fuel ethanol. So fare the results has been quite good – I have optimized alkaline peroxide pretreatment for different cellulose feedstock, I have successfully used “no-cook” enzyme to hydrolyse starches, I have made some research how low power ultrasound affects on enzymatic hydrolyse (starch, cellulose), I have got in laboratory nearly 25% alcohol after fermentation by using right yeast strain mash oxygenation before pitching and right amount of yeast nutritions + nitrogen, I think it is possible to ferment pentose sugars from hemicellulose to ethanol with natural yeast strain Pichia stipitis (it will be my next laboratory research) ect. So I feel like I know little bit how to make fuel ethanol. I am not a biodiesel person because in our cold Estonian climate it is very difficult (impossible) to grow oil crops economically. Few weeks ago I read article about Viridium Inc. patent pending technology and algae which contains up to 96% starch and I think the rest was cellulose. And then I read here somewhere in forum Marc's comments about this “unic” technology and that he has much better freshwater algae strain(s). I started to think why all of you have focused on algae to (bio)diesel technology and not algae to ethanol technology? I can see many advantages to make ethanol from algae instead of diesel: 1.The lipid (oil) content in algae (best strains I have seen from different sources max. 70%) is less than starch+cellulose+sugars (nearly 100%) content 2.Algae should be dried (a lot of energy) to extract oil but needs no treatment for ethanol fermentation 3.Extracting the oil from algae is complicated 4.CO2 from ethanol fermenting can be used as algae feedstock 5.The energy from fermenting and distilling can be used to heat algae ponds Please point it out if I am wrong. I have basically 4 ha of farming land and 20-30 k USD available to start this project. Any help (to choose the freshwater algae strain, lightning, nutrition ect.) will be appreciated. I have been thinking about greenhouse covered open pond growing strategy.

My thoughts which I would like flaws found in: Grow algae, press algae for oil, ferment the remaining mass for alcohol, feed the CO2 produced in fermenting back to the algae production. Heck, take the remaining dry mass after fermentation and burn it, use the CO2 and carbon in feeding the algae production as well. Also, the glycerol byproduct from biodiesel production... can that be processed into yeast-chow for ethanol production?

epowell, thank you so, so much for giving me a reason to link to my favorite ever biodieselnow.com thread... http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5249&SearchTerms=oleginous,yeast Kumar Plocher Yokayo Biofuels .........../ \..................... fueling / R \ evolution ........./____\.................. My "Fueled for Thought" biodiesel blog is at http://www.livejournal.com/~ybiofuels Biodiesel... [img]http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8869/itsgreatstuff2tf.png[/img]

Sounds like a great idea. If anyone had a list of algae strains and their starch content. everyone can get an glimpse of the possibilities of this idea.

dealing with complex algae sugars requires quite a good bit of processing the sugars are quite complex , its not a matter of just pitching flieshmans or red top yeast and fermenting it. AHTO seems to be on track with the approach he's taking.. very interesting work....I commend him, and hope he keeps us posted on his progress. ethanol feedstocks are far more varied and available than those available for biodiesel. cellulose and algae do require far more treatment than grains , fruits or sugars (glucose) from waste streams, but the attempt to make ethanol from algae and cellulose is certainly worth the effort and a valuable contribution to winning the energy wars.. Marc Orion Cardoso

Not to worry, you can find most yeast strains you are looking for in one of the worlds yeast culture collections. I found an Inulinase enzyme producing yeast with no problem. Shipped from the UK to Ontario Canada within a couple weeks. http://www.ncyc.co.uk/ Although, it would be more than idea if there were an algae that contained over 50% regular starch. Enzymes can be an expensive game. Yeast on the other hand can be cultured very easily, in a malt or Molasses solution with or without a bit of yeast nutrients. so you can produce as much as you need. The simpler the process, the better it is for the individual producers.

I have been researching bio-fuels for a while now and have come across several that have good potential. One of these is the algae fuels (biodiesel and ethanol). The question is; where does one place the "farm"? There are several possibilities. The first is to use acreage that could otherwise be put to good use (for example forests to capture atmospheric CO2). The second is to place them at or near CO2 admitting industry or other sources (such as roadways), which would also take up land but would reduce the overall emissions from those sources. A third possibility is to place the "farms" out at sea. This would not take up acreage that would otherwise be better put to use. Or a combination of these could be used. Personally I like the idea of capturing emission CO2 along with the "Sea Farm". This would recycle atmospheric CO2 into energy and could possibly reduce the overall atmospheric CO2 if some of the algae was pumped into "dried up" oil wells and not used. If we did this the possibility of a CO2 "leak" would be minimized and if we used the high oil strain of algae it may be useable in the future if needed. Other benefits of the "Sea Farm" idea would be that we could use tidal generators, solar, or wind generators to provide extra energy for the growth and conversion processes, which would further reduce the need for burning fuels. There is way to produce hydrogen (low efficiency though) from certain strains of algae, which could then be converted with CO2 to Methane. This could be transported with minimum safety concerns and converted back into hydrogen (if necessary) at need through catalytic processes. Or, using enzymatic or new yeast strains, the algae could be fermented into ethanol, which could be used as is or converted through catalytic processes into hydrogen at need. So as you can see there are opportunities for this type of fuel both to capture and store atmospheric CO2 and to produce fuel stocks and energy.

If you argue that the energy expended on distilling the ethanol from the water product can be reclaimed by using it to heat algae ponds, then the energy expended to drive water from the algae can likewise be reclaimed, so your second point is not true and the fifth point is not a unique advantage for algae-ethanol. However I do find your other points to be very cogent and didn't think of them myself.

Hi Ahto I have great belief in algae being the eventual feedstock for ethanol there is no faster growing feedstock. Have you considered Cyanobacteria as a source of cellulose or starch. I have done no tests myself but am aware of recent studies that have confirmed the presence of cellulose in that specicies. It is fast growing. I have seen blooms of the stuff myself. I live close to a place called Hartebeespoort dam. Its one of the worlds best examples of a Cyanobacteria bloom. Happens annually... Any other specicies? What about Clorella? As a food substance it is largely carbohydrates? Don't Judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seads you plant

one of the issues with ethanol is the growth stability of the 'bugs' inside the reactor. the problem with algae is that some maybe toxic to those bugs. so one would need a pure feed stock. anywho...with that said. ethanol is a dead technology. its a dumb idea to ramp up and will be gone like the dinosaurs in a very short time. why u ask? its because of the in-efficiency of the 'bugs'. life takes energy to keep going. life takes certain requirements like temp and nut's to process. and contamination is also a problem in these systems. that is why corn is one of the only feedstocks, because it is realtively homogenius and highly studied to know the EXACT components. in essence, there are much more efficient ways of producing energy than ethanol because of the process itself. plus, corn only works with cheap fossil fuels. without those, the system quickly breaks down. yes cellulosic ethanol is a better answer but still, u have the in-efficiency of keeping a living organism doing work. froggy

ethanol is far more versatile since there is such a great range of feedstocks one drawback however is energy inputsd but that can be corrected by using a vacuum in the distillation process. we have made ethanol on a production level of 15 gallons per hour since 1978. the following are feedstocks we have used... gatoraid powder from quaker oats at a rate of seven tons per week that would otherwwise been landfilled, rice cakes from the same souyrce at the rate of seven tons per week that otherwise would have been landfilled, apple cider pulp at a rate of 3000 lbs per week that would otherwise been landfilled, wind fallen fruit from orchards at a rate of six tons per week that would have otherwise rotted on the ground most recently we made ethanol from wastes from debbies cakes not only did we make ethanol but we also made biodiesel from the very same source, we made ethanol from culled carrots at a rate of seven tons per week, that would have otherwise been improperly disp[osed of saving a major carrot grower thousands in fines from the EPA. we made ethanol from sulphite liquors from papermills. ,from flat beer collected from bars and microbtreweries, from flat cocacola, ginger ale, and the wash off from cocacola bottling companies which contain 5% sugars this use of waste streams is largely ignored as a source of fuel.. ecogenics has been at the forfront of producing fuel from weaste for thirty years. we have made ethanol from rice ctraw, using cellulose hydrolysis. and the list o0f alternative crops is endless. ethanol will be at the forfront of alternatyive fuels if waste streams are used for the feed stocks just like we have shown that it is economically viable... see our website for more on ethanol from wastes marc Marc Orion Cardoso www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org

heres more on non traditional feedstocks for alcohol AND OTHER FUELS. kenaf... fast growing tree (15 ft in 6 mos) high protein,fine for paper pulp,excellent alcohol crop,five times more fiber than pine. heres one for biodiesel......Grindelia squarrose, 500 kg./acre of fine oil guayule.....,ford edison and bell's favorite weed 12% rubber good for alcohol cattails..... 1000 to4700 gallons of ethanol per acre MIlkweed 10 to 20 barrels of oil per acre gopherweed..... 10-20 gals of oil per acre, can be cracked onto gaSOLINE AND ALCOHOL SAGEBRUSH.... HIGH BTU OIL kudzu 35% carbohydrates in the root commonm;ly used for starch in Japan where it is a major industry. honey locust 35% sugar in the bean theres lots more.. get our alcohol manual for lots more on alternative crops including dunaliela algae as a feedstock for ethanol.. Marc Orion Cardoso www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org

double post

this is a very good idea, especially as part of an integrated farming system that used crop feedstock for oil for biodiesel, and WASTES for ethanol for addition to biodiesel as this significantly improves emissions further, in the case of say B20 blends it should theoretically work. Heres the link to adding 10% ethanol to conventional diesel; http://www.pure-energy.com/sae2001-01-2475.pdf But the idea is even better when completely integrated with other systems. Here is the vision I see; A farm produces cellulosic wastes for feedstock into ethanol digesters. These could be wastes from the production of vegetable oil, or wastes from other crops or natural resources. Some of these wastes contain lignin. Up to 40% IIRC of a crop may be undigested to ethanol, as lignin wastes. Using low tech WW2 technology, this could be gassified and injected into a diesel engine to make electricity and waste heat for the farm

• This could be particularly cost effective since diesels can rapidly cycle, allowing them to be schemed with renewables, making them more cost effective, allowing additional electricity sources to be sold to the grid.

Waste heat can also be used to support the liberation of energy from such sources, perhaps hydro-thermally as I have read has been acheived. Now the waste CO2 from lignin wastes now supports an algea farm based in tubes. Oil extracted from that algea (if oil producing strains and extraction is possible in the setting) leaves more cellulose for ethanol production - Great! But, the ethanol production also creates CO2 which also supports the algea, as pointed out. On the farm, the farmer also produces glycerol as a biodiesel waste product - which could be burnt to create more electricity and more CO2. Waste heat supports algea production. Now, if farm animals are present, their slurry can be used for methane which can go into the generator, also supplying a bit more CO2. The result, lots of ethanol, and it seems there are benefits adding it to diesel, so we end up with bio-e-diesel. The advantages of all this are the low tech potential of many of the steps, and the potential transferability to real farms. I dont know how difficult it is to liberate oil from algea, but cellulose rich sources could be used. The vegetable oil feedstock could come from jatropha or Palm instead, and various wastes provide ethanol in conjunction with CO2 for algea, with electricity by-products. Ultimately, this could be very beneficial for farming and the communities in places like Africa. Adding water to the fuel may also reverse the small impact on NOX that biodiesel has, and even improve efficiency, and does further reduce particulates, thus, the benefits of biodiesel could be greatly extended. Heres more on that, the links towards the end; http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15739

quote:

---

Originally posted by ahto
Hello to everybody! I have been reading this forum for more than year and have learned quite a lot from you all. First about myself. I have been working on laboratory scale and little bit larger scale (100 l fermenters) lately, to develop simple and economical (low energy input) farm-scale technology to produce fuel ethanol. So fare the results has been quite good – I have optimized alkaline peroxide pretreatment for different cellulose feedstock, I have successfully used “no-cook” enzyme to hydrolyse starches, I have made some research how low power ultrasound affects on enzymatic hydrolyse (starch, cellulose), I have got in laboratory nearly 25% alcohol after fermentation by using right yeast strain mash oxygenation before pitching and right amount of yeast nutritions + nitrogen, I think it is possible to ferment pentose sugars from hemicellulose to ethanol with natural yeast strain Pichia stipitis (it will be my next laboratory research) ect. So I feel like I know little bit how to make fuel ethanol. I am not a biodiesel person because in our cold Estonian climate it is very difficult (impossible) to grow oil crops economically. Few weeks ago I read article about Viridium Inc. patent pending technology and algae which contains up to 96% starch and I think the rest was cellulose. And then I read here somewhere in forum Marc's comments about this “unic” technology and that he has much better freshwater algae strain(s). I started to think why all of you have focused on algae to (bio)diesel technology and not algae to ethanol technology? I can see many advantages to make ethanol from algae instead of diesel: 1.The lipid (oil) content in algae (best strains I have seen from different sources max. 70%) is less than starch+cellulose+sugars (nearly 100%) content 2.Algae should be dried (a lot of energy) to extract oil but needs no treatment for ethanol fermentation 3.Extracting the oil from algae is complicated 4.CO2 from ethanol fermenting can be used as algae feedstock 5.The energy from fermenting and distilling can be used to heat algae ponds Please point it out if I am wrong. I have basically 4 ha of farming land and 20-30 k USD available to start this project. Any help (to choose the freshwater algae strain, lightning, nutrition ect.) will be appreciated. I have been thinking about greenhouse covered open pond growing strategy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rex (SNIP) I started to think why all of you have focused on algae to (bio)diesel technology and not algae to ethanol technology? I can see many advantages to make ethanol from algae instead of diesel: 1.The lipid (oil) content in algae (best strains I have seen from different sources max. 70%) is less than starch+cellulose+sugars (nearly 100%) content 2.Algae should be dried (a lot of energy) to extract oil but needs no treatment for ethanol fermentation 3.Extracting the oil from algae is complicated 4.CO2 from ethanol fermenting can be used as algae feedstock 5.The energy from fermenting and distilling can be used to heat algae ponds Please point it out if I am wrong. (SNIP) Your point 1. That is true, but that does not mean your costs will be less or your profits more. It would require several tests to reach a conclusion. Your point 2. This is a wide-spread misconception. For research results to be comparable and repeatable, the per cent of lipid in algae is usually referenced to the dry weight. But that is just small quantities for tests. For production, there is no need to dry the algae and it would be an enormous waste of energy to do so. Your point 3. I am hoping that a change in osmotic pressure will work. If so - flood the algae with water, let stand overnight, skim the oil off the top. There are many ways to remove the oil - we will have run a lot of tests to find the best one. Your point 4. CO2 supplemetation is useful where it is readily available, but is not necessary to grow algae. Your point 5. - fermenting. It was my understanding that frementation produces only a small amount of low grade heat. It might not be worthwhile try to heat something with it. Your point 5 - distillation. It was my understanding that distillation is an energy using operation, not a producer. If you build a large plant, it might be worthwhile trying to use some of the waste heat from this energy intensive step. Growing algae to get SVO and either using it directly or as biodiesel are two possibilites that we need to investigate. If others want to produce ethanol, that is fine too. I like chocolate ice cream, some people like vanilla. Bobby

---

[/quote] Toward freedom, Bobby

I have been working on laboratory scale and little bit larger scale (100 l fermenters) lately, to develop simple and economical (low energy input) farm-scale technology to produce fuel ethanol. So fare the results has been quite good – I have optimized alkaline peroxide pretreatment for different cellulose feedstock, I have successfully used “no-cook” enzyme to hydrolyse starches, I have made some research how low power ultrasound affects on enzymatic hydrolyse (starch, cellulose), I have got in laboratory nearly 25% alcohol after fermentation by using right yeast strain mash oxygenation before pitching and right amount of yeast nutritions + nitrogen, I think it is possible to ferment pentose sugars from hemicellulose to ethanol with natural yeast strain Pichia stipitis (it will be my next laboratory research) ect. So I feel like I know little bit how to make fuel ethanol. Ahto I am looking at a combination of bio diesel, anaerobic digestion and ethanol production to provide liquid fuel and electrical power. Growing algae downstream of my cow & swine faeces fed digestor would allow me to recover biodiesel from the algae and send the residue solids back to the digestor. Methane in the digestor gas fed into a gas engine gives me electrical power. For vehicles, we need to either use diesel or ethanol. Up until now, ethanol was not an option as my only real source of biomass was wood or cellulose. I see that you seem to have some real success with extracting ethanol... Please email me as I would like to learn more. Rex

^^or he could just post more info here! :D Great idea ATB. I'm fascinated with algae's ability to capture CO2, thereby creating as much biomass as possible. rex, I'm glad you are having so much success with ethanol production. Have you looked into butanol instead? My understanding is that it (butanol) requires a different yeast strain, but is more stable (doesn't absorb water or something) after it is created. Also, welcome to the board! peace

Hi Rex Have you thought about how you will grow the algae. If its going to be open pond, it might be difficult to maintain a certain strain that you require constant without it getting taken over by wild strains. What has your experiance been with breaking down the algae to the simpler sugars? I would think that you would have to remove quite a lot of the water before acid hydrolysis? Seems very interesting so far... I'm still on study leave so be a bit quiet. I'll send a reply through regarding the e-mail sent as soon as I have some time.

Sorry for the delay - I have been man down with a bug! What I know about yeasts is actually quite frightening. My post was actually to try and find if Ahto was a real person or someone who was just teasing us with the possibilities... I would not be surprised if there was a yeast that could make butanol but suspect it may not be that easy. Making ethanol is already in the slot (much like carbon is in the slot in organic chemistry). The guy to ask is Ahto.

I aim to grow a local green algae and see what happens. At worst I can add it to my digestor and get another go around on the energy front.

 Cheers

Rex