thermal depolymerization plant - BioDieselNow

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Latest post 04-14-2008 01:05 AM by techscavenger. 1,029 replies.

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11-08-2006 12:23 PM In reply to

Mike Briggs
Joined on 09-09-2002
Dover, NH
Posts 8,424

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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quote:
Originally posted by Diesel Enthusiast
quote:
Come on, you are not ignorant. You know the Choren process well. Don't you think it could handle paper? It is just way more economical to recycle paper to paper, that's why nobody is doing it. Alphakat can handle paper, we can handle paper. Again, it's just a question of the oil/coke ratio you get out of it.
Yes, I know Choren can convert paper into diesel. As for recycling being so much more economical: why is 40% of US landfill waste paper? Is it: 1. That there is just way more paper waste than what can be recycled? 2. The fact that paper degrades and can only be recycled X times. 3. Demand for recycled paper is just too low. 4. All of the above.

You leave out: 5. A large portion of the US population is ignorant and easily misinformed, and has been convinced that all recycling is inefficient and not economical by intentional misinformation. Every time I go to the southern part of the US I'm shocked at the complete lack of ANY recycling (plastics, glass, paper, etc.). It's not for any valid scientific reason, it's because of ignorance. That said - not all paper is the same when it comes to recycling. Recycling is much more difficult when you have nasty inks to deal with.

11-08-2006 12:52 PM In reply to

Mike Briggs
Joined on 09-09-2002
Dover, NH
Posts 8,424

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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quote:
Originally posted by jet49t When the unit was pulled apart and the system drained, there were no particles in the oil. It all looked like dirty engine oil. Very smooth between your fingers. The cardboard had turned to a liquid and stayed that way back at room temperature. So the cardboard is turned into light crude oil then the diesel fraction is separated.

Wait a minute - your proof that the cardboard was turned into crude oil is that it was a dark liquid that felt smooth between your fingers? Man, have I got a bridge to sell you. [:D]

quote:
Before you all jump all over the fact that the cardboard is mixed with oil. They now have a new demo unit which allows the shredded waste to be feed dry, or mixed with oil, or you can feed pure oil - the unit produces only diesel somehow.

I'm sorry, but there is just no way that you can turn all that mixed organic material into only diesel. That's almost as absurd as claiming to turn lead into gold (well, without nuclear reactions).

quote:
This process takes randomly mixed any organic mixture carbohydrate, cellulose, plastic, oil cardboard - anything you can burn and converts it directly to pure straight chain hydrocarbon in one step in a machine which takes up about 10x10x20 ft space. Dr Koch sat with me and sketched the carbohydrate molecules and showed how the process removes carbon and oxygen and produces CO2 which is a byproduct.

Wait - I thought you said it turns everything into pure diesel?

quote:
H2O is not a byproduct of this process. From the time you start pumping the mixture into the reactor it takes about 3 minutes before diesel starts to pour out. We are neighbors - it is easy to contact me if you would like to visit my shop, we can talk about this in great detail. I have other pictures and video.

Unfortunately pictures and video don't prove squat.

quote:
Green Power is building plants which cost about $80 million each. These plants will be very economical and very profitable - at least at first. Until there are enough built to start driving the price of energy down.

Hmmm... "these will be very economical and very profitable"... where have I heard that before...?

11-08-2006 01:15 PM In reply to

ulev
Joined on 07-05-2006
Posts 44

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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Jim, I have no reason to doubt your objectivity. After all I have seen many people react like you to that kind of demonstration including myself. [:)] I will certainly appreciate to work with you further on this. I will contact you directly for that. For now, just one line of thought I cannot resist to follow: Depreciation cost of the planned facility. Lets take the 80 Mio. and consider them all as investment. A depreciation period of 8 - 10 years is reasonable for such a plant. 10 years result in 8 Mio. per year. Now let's assume max. production hours per year at 7000. Very high but ok after the plant has been stabilized after 2 to 3 years of operation. Yearly production would be 2000 gal/h x 7000h = 14 Mio. gal. The rest is easy, this means, divide 8/14 = 0.57 $ per gallon in depreciation cost alone. Can anybody imagine, they can cover all other running cost of their plant with the remaining 3 cents as they claim a total cost of 60 cents per gallon? Add their dubious statement about 5 cents (It's actually way more. In my business plan it's 50 c/gal.) for the catalyst and we are already at 62 cents. Is this the kind of businessman you want to trust with your money? He doesn't even get his basic numbers right!

11-08-2006 02:03 PM In reply to

Mike Briggs
Joined on 09-09-2002
Dover, NH
Posts 8,424

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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quote:
Originally posted by jet49t I saw the system operate. In Fife Wash. I was there twice.

"Seeing" a system operate does not necessarily tell you squat about what's going on, or confirm what you're being told. SnakeOil salesmen rely on that... and people being gullible.

07-03-2007 10:43 PM In reply to

natescape
Joined on 01-14-2002
Between Providence and Cape Cod
Posts 4,849

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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Testing. This post doesn't want to sticky itself.

09-25-2007 05:41 PM In reply to

pom
Joined on 09-24-2007
Posts 13

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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can someone summary this topic so I dont have to read 50 pages!

Can they do what they claim or is it bull ?

cheers

Pom

09-30-2007 12:01 AM In reply to

Greaser
Joined on 06-15-2007
Northern CALIFORNIA
Posts 8

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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scam, if it was real and it did 1/2 of what it was first reported, don't you think we all would have seen it in every news paper, every TV news report, and the fuel pumps would be labeling it as thermal depolymerization products. come on, don't be so easy. this post is a going down in history as the largest snakeOIL con ever posted on BiodieselNow

scam scam scam scam scam

I wish someone could prove me wrong, but it is not possible to turn and old computer into heating oil #2

Old Greaser

Filed under: add sented oils to your Biodiesel...

09-30-2007 08:23 AM In reply to

perotter
Joined on 07-09-2006
Minnesota
Posts 211

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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pom:
can someone summary this topic so I dont have to read 50 pages!
Can they do what they claim or is it bull ?

cheers

Pom

CWT says that they are making a fuel that can be used as a heavy fuel oil. They make no claim to be making #2 fuel oil. As several Univ & the US gov have done that with a similar process, I'd say that CWT can also do it. That tech goes back to at least the 1960s.

As for the dollars, the feedstock has to be cheap to make money on this fuel.

Not a scam, but not the a-to-z or perfect process for alt fuel production. If it has a role to play in alt fuel, it would most likely would be when the feedstock contains a high percentage of water.

I think that at the U of West Virginia, on a lab scale, a student was able to make a #2 fuel oil. Something like 15% of the product from this type of process. I'll look for the report, not today though.

Hope this helps.

Martin

09-30-2007 08:37 AM In reply to

perotter
Joined on 07-09-2006
Minnesota
Posts 211

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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Greaser,

I'm I correct to assume that u mean the plastic in the old computer? If so, that is old 1920's tech.

1. Use pyrolysis to turn the plastic into syngas.

2. Use the F-T process to make the heating oil #2.

Do I win anything?

Martin

04-14-2008 01:05 AM In reply to

techscavenger
Joined on 04-14-2008
Posts 8

Re: thermal depolymerization plant

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i work (pro bono) in egypt trying to help people win back energy from their waste as part of waste management. we have just set up WVO community collection and convert the oil to biodiesel and either give the biodiesel back for own consumption or sell and return the proceeds to the owner of the original WVO (if you want to know more see www.cleanupegypt.blogspot.com - in egypt there is no such thing as tipping fees because if the waste has a value then you either pay for it or it gets dumped in the nearest desert). we also have large large large amounts of plastic, for which i am currently trialling a few different recycling initiatives however when i came across a reference to TP i was naturally curious to know more.

have i got the basic facts about the technology right? heat up waste material under water pressure at around 450 degrees centigrade? a heavy crude is produced which needs further refining? CO2 contributions are zero? any other pollutants produced? is there any evidence of it being done small scale and where would i find info on this please?

we are trying to obtain funding for research on small-scale sustainable farming in arid conditions and before i suggest this idea to the funding people i would really appreciate knowing whether or not TP works and under which (economic and environmental) works.

thanks in advance

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