BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

i'm new here but......lol.. if someone hasn't used the new FM2 then why would they criticize it?  Looks like most people here have only used or seen some older one they made. I have the FM2 and i have to say - it rocks....... water wash is nice cuz it has the pressure regulator & auto-shutoff thing and the dry lid thing they have is pretty cool, dries my fuel in about 2 hours most of the time.

 They have it on YouTube > http://youtube.com/watch?v=hTuDUq9akXc

 Very simple, very effective. I've never had a problem with it. Dissolves ALL the lye EVERY time. The tank is 100% drain (no ledge on the bottom for garbage to hang up on) and there's no need for a premix tank!!!!!  How can you NOT like this machine? Plus the Tech Support is pretty good as they do try to help with a problem if you have one (like winter fuel, etc...)

Bumping the sticky.
 

 For what it's worth, I finally sat down and watched a Sci-Fi show called "Invention Nation" that featured biodiesel and WVO. They featured the Fuelmeister and had Josh Tickell there, essentially endorsing the Fuelmeister. They showed the FM2. Is that safer than the regular Fuelmeister?

natescape:

They featured the Fuelmeister and had Josh Tickell there, essentially endorsing the Fuelmeister.

Notably, Josh is the same fellow who endorsed making Biodiesel in an electric blender. While he's been a great promoter for the biodiesel movement, I'm not going to him with safety questions...

natescape:

They showed the FM2. Is that safer than the regular Fuelmeister?

The reactor is still a plastic tank; philosophies differ regarding this issue. What's interesting is, one of the speakers at this biofuel conference (alternate) I attended Tuesday mentioned that Wisconsin is working towards regulating Biodiesel production equipment and plans to require steel/stainless reactor vessels. State papers (linked in one of my other posts) hint that these regulations will be similar to storage tank policies already enacted; the state listed methanol fires as the primary motivator for this prior action.

Restickying again.  

LilTimmy:

Sadly, this system just got huge national exposure on an episode of SpikeTV's "Trucks". Hopefully the cost will make the viewers do a little research before purchasing...

I have known about bio-diesel for some time now but seeing Tracy on Trucks make it look so easy is what got me to start my internet research. Ya, the price had something to do with it as well. Im a commercial plumber and would never pay that kind of money for something so simple! At the very least I think the show has served to broaden the understanding of Bio-fuel despite the unit on display. .o2

I have a Fuelmeister 2 and it works great and makes great fuel it is really easy to use, might be alittle more money then the HOMEMADE machines but by the time you get all your parts and trips to the home depot store for parts.My time is worth more to me then running back and forth to the store to buy parts for my machine to make. Just my 2 cents

Wieckster:

I have a Fuelmeister 2 and it works great and makes great fuel it is really easy to use, might be alittle more money then the HOMEMADE machines but by the time you get all your parts and trips to the home depot store for parts.My time is worth more to me then running back and forth to the store to buy parts for my machine to make. Just my 2 cents

How do you know it makes great fuel?  What tests have you performed to verify this?  Do you process your oil hot?  What temperature do you maintain during processing?

120 degrees is what the oil is when it goes into the machine. The fuel and distilled water test it all seperates and the fuel is clear burns well works for me

Wieckster:

120 degrees is what the oil is when it goes into the machine.

This will lead to poor conversion in colder (or even mild) temperatures. Lower process temps mean longer processing times. Longer processing times lead to cooling of the mix, therefore requiring even longer processing times, and so on... Obviously, this varies by location.

Wieckster:

The fuel and distilled water test it all seperates

I very much hope this isn't the quality test Fuelmeister recommended to you. The results only indicate if you have residual soap in your fuel. They will not indicate whether you have water in your fuel or the level of conversion.

Wieckster:

fuel is clear

I've seen clear fuel that has enough residual water in it to make it off-spec. This test is useful, but not a clear indicator of quality.

Wieckster:

burns well

Testing fuel quality in an engine is not the smartest idea. A "failure" result could be quite expensive. Even vegetable oil and motor oil will burn well in a diesel - for a while.

Try a pHLip test or the knockoff for more clear results on fuel conversion; the 3/27 solubility test is also useful. Also, there are quantitative water testers you purchase to determine the water content of your fuel. At a minimum, you should perform and pass these tests before you can claim to be making quality homebrew.

 

 

 

 Sheesh, I've seen pure vegetable oil that was clear, certainly not a good indication of quality biodiesel.

This whole 11 page long post is strange.  Everybody here appears to be interested in a common goal which is to homebrew bio-d but there is such a strange aversion to this fuel-meister kit.  I do not own or will never own a fuel-meister II kit, but I make bio out of plastic cone bottom tanks that I regularly heat to 140 degrees and have no problem at all.  Is the plastic my tank is made of that big of a deal really?  Has there ever been a tank failure related to heating?  I do know that schedule 80 pvc can be pressurized up to 150 psi which is 10 times higher than any pressure that is used to make Bio.   Personally unless your using all nema rated explosion proof switches, junction boxes, etc there is a large risk for explosion no matter what system you use.  As far as conversion goes if its heated, titrated right, washed and dried I could care less who sells what for how much.  The bottome line is that if somebody tells me they are making bio diesel in a coffee pot and it works out for them I could care less if my system is better or if somebody else is charging 3000 grand for a system that I think sucks.

 I think that is worth less than one cent however respond if you like

  What is strange about advocating safety?  Plastic tanks are not made to withstand the pressure of so much hot caustics for any length of time.  The plastic will get soft and distort.  Part of the "aversion" is the price charged for something that is not well supported, does not make good fuel, and is marketed in deceptive ways.

You might want to check the specifications on PVC again, as the maximum rated temperature is 140F.  Get it hotter than that and it will flow and fail.

Explosion is the least of the concerns here; leaks and fires are the most likely consequnces of failure, and are most likely to happen with plastic, especially when hot.

From what I've heard 130 F is plenty hot to make good quality bio-diesel, that should ensure that the pvc does not flow.  As for the poly tanks they are not pvc they are high density poly tanks which is a horse of another color.  As far as compatibility, hdpe tanks are rated for sodium hypo-chlorite which has a ph of around 12 to 13, under exposure of direct sun they still have a 5 year warranty, I know I purchase and use them at water treatment facilities.  To get things straight I will not argue that plastic tanks are  better than fabricated stainless steel but my point was that we should encourage folks to make bio-diesel.  As far as leaks go, it does not matter what kind of processor you use appleseed or fuel-meister or home made, if you do not connect your joints properly they will leak. 

I do have one question for appleseed users.  Have you ever had a batch gel up and make glop? If so how do you remove the solidified glod that will develop inside the processor.  The reason I ask this is that when I first got started I was using sodium Hydroxide and had two 40 gallon batches foul up and I had a solid chunk of glop.  I understand now that I had made some critical, typical first time errors in processing but it left me with this question how would I remove that from an appleseed type processor?  If this has happened to anyone let me know. 

 

Btw fuel-meister prices are outrageous, I made my own dreaded plastic tank processor for under 500 bucks.  I suppose that the one distinct advantage is that is does vent out rather nasty fumes because it is not sealed properly, thank god for ventilation fans and forced air supply

chuckspowerstroke:

From what I've heard 130 F is plenty hot to make good quality bio-diesel, that should ensure that the pvc does not flow.  As for the poly tanks they are not pvc they are high density poly tanks which is a horse of another color.  As far as compatibility, hdpe tanks are rated for sodium hypo-chlorite which has a ph of around 12 to 13, under exposure of direct sun they still have a 5 year warranty, I know I purchase and use them at water treatment facilities.  To get things straight I will not argue that plastic tanks are  better than fabricated stainless steel but my point was that we should encourage folks to make bio-diesel.  As far as leaks go, it does not matter what kind of processor you use appleseed or fuel-meister or home made, if you do not connect your joints properly they will leak. 

I do have one question for appleseed users.  Have you ever had a batch gel up and make glop? If so how do you remove the solidified glod that will develop inside the processor.  The reason I ask this is that when I first got started I was using sodium Hydroxide and had two 40 gallon batches foul up and I had a solid chunk of glop.  I understand now that I had made some critical, typical first time errors in processing but it left me with this question how would I remove that from an appleseed type processor?  If this has happened to anyone let me know. 

 

Btw fuel-meister prices are outrageous, I made my own dreaded plastic tank processor for under 500 bucks.  I suppose that the one distinct advantage is that is does vent out rather nasty fumes because it is not sealed properly, thank god for ventilation fans and forced air supply

You are correct that 130F is an appropriate temperature to heat oil for making biodiesel.  There are two flaws in assuming that is safe for PVC.  When methanol/lye mixture is introduced, it is an exothermic reaction and the temperature rises.  I've not heard of a rise of more than 10F, but that calls into question how accurately you can control the temperature.  I had a temperature probe fail recently.  It still registered, but 130F was actually around 150F.  I hope this does not happen to someone brewing in plastic -- at worst you can have a catastrophic leak, at best you will boil off a significant quantity of methanol into your work space.  For me, my batch failed 3/27 because I boiled off methanol through the vent outside.

Leaks can happen in black iron, but that is a novice mistake.  My new processor has zero leaks because I have learned.  For those who buy a prefab processor that opportunity does not exist, and again, hot oil and PVC do not make leak-free joints for long.

I've always used KOH, and relatively water-free oil.  With those ingredients, draining the processor is never an issue.

quote :  For me, my batch failed 3/27 because I boiled off methanol through the vent outside.

Hi old300D,

I put the methanol lye mix into the top of the CPP When the oil is about 140F.   If I just barely stir the mixer while the methanol is going in a thick steady stream of white smoke will come out of the vent.  Stop stirring and it will stop.  Adding methanol while stirring slowly will send the methanol out the vent.

When the process first starts the mix gets thicker. You can feel it using the CPP and watch the current increase using the PitBull pump when doing pump mixing. How much thicker depends on the batch.  This can slow down the mixing depending on the pump and setup.  More friction in the pipes and pump can cause the temp to rise more than 10F depending on the pump and setup.   Very inexact science.

HDPE is more prone to stress cracking when exposed to methanol.

Thanks, Steve

 

All the methanol transfer pumps I have seen for sale on bio diesel supply company web-sites are made of HDPE, in fact they proudly claim that the Methanol pump on Utah Bio diesel supply is made with HDPE throughout.  The methanol supplier I use has been using there methanol transfer pump daily for a long time without any problems.  The question remains is HDPE's frailty and faults more myth or is it based on facts. check the link below and read the explanation of the pump being methanol and bio-diesel resistant.

 

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/siphonpump.php

This ad claims HDPE is compatible with both Bio and Methanol, note that the methanol in question is pure? 

http://www.google.com/search?q=environment+cracking+agent+methanol+hdpe&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Thanks for the link to the article, nothing like facts to end a discussion.  I wonder though if the effects that the article discussed are something that will occur to a degree that a will cause a tank to fail or if they only occur on microscopic levels. 

 If this is all true how come companies will sell heaters for plastic barrels and pumps for transfer methanol that are made of HDPE?

chuckspowerstroke:

If this is all true how come companies will sell heaters for plastic barrels and pumps for transfer methanol that are made of HDPE?

It's more of an issue of thermal compatibility, not chemical compatibility. Companies aren't selling these plastic devices to move heated materials. The last pump we purchased has explicit thermal limitations discussed in the manual. I've also seen, first-hand, plastics weaken and then fail at 130F (gray hose barbs). I've heard of inductor seam failures and there are a number of photos of burnt up plastic tanks floating around the forums. The plastic barrel heaters have a different thermal range than the metal barrel heaters - notably lower temps.