BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

Has anybody bought the steel biodiesel unit from bioking.I am looking into setting up a small plant but getting the correct equipment at the right price is quite difficult. I am looking to produce around 1000lts a day.

These do look pretty nice: http://www.bioking.nl/stainless_steel_biodiesel_processors.htm We have some stainless equipment (not biodiesel) in our company, and it is very expensive. That accounts for some of the cost of those units. Something I'm curious about is their statement that their diesel requires no water washing. In any case, it doesn't look like water washing was incorporated into the design--not that you couldn't modify if you found that you had soap. I'm also looking at a larger facility, but I think I'm going to start out with a small appleseed style pilot project to learn from. Something that looks like bioking's stainless unit would be my second step, if all goes well.

If I had to spend the kind of money they want for their stainless steel processor's, I'd shoot for this companies model: http://www.ssienergy.com/ Completely stainless steel plus it's got the bonified ASTM Certification behind it (looks a lot more compact too!). [just editing my post....the companies working on getting it to meet full ASTM specification. I mistakenly thought it had already met that...my bad] -Graydon

Although, that is one sweet lookin' unit Boiking has there.... -Graydon

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Originally posted by graydonblair
If I had to spend the kind of money they want for their stainless steel processor's, I'd shoot for this companies model: http://www.ssienergy.com/ Completely stainless steel plus it's got the bonified ASTM Certification behind it (looks a lot more compact too!). -Graydon

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SORRY TO DISAPPOINT, BUT I'VE TESTED THE FUEL MADE WITH THAT PROCESSOR SEVERAL TIMES, AND IT HAS NOT MET ASTM SPECS! I like the guy who designed it (they're in Chico), and I wish him well, as he does seem to be headed in a better direction than Fuelmeister, but if some kind of "ASTM Certification" claim is being made, it's 100% total and complete bullsh*t and fraud.

Graydon, where did you see the ASTM claim, anyway? Didn't see it at your link, and I am not aware of the company that makes that processor ever making that claim...

I had emailed the company asking them about it and whether it met ASTM spec or not. They'd emailed me back indicated that it did. That's a bummer if it doesn't though... -Graydon

Here's what it looks like for the curious...(I just linked to a graphic on their site) [img]http://www.ssienergy.com/images/BioPro190_indeximage1_gif.gif[/img] -Graydon

Wow, tall claims. Fully automated?!?! No measuring?!?!

I just dug out the email. They said that "..it's close to ASTM spec.." and they expect to get certification soon. -Graydon

Here is system made in North Amarica http://www.biofuelcanada.ca/ Does it look good or is it bad?

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Originally posted by graydonblair
I had emailed the company asking them about it and whether it met ASTM spec or not. They'd emailed me back indicated that it did. That's a bummer if it doesn't though... -Graydon

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How can a machine..any machine have a claim to make astm spec fuel . I would think it is all in the process/producer not the processor?

The machine controls the titration, the reaction, everything. You just fill up the section needed (add lye, add acid, add methanol, add oil) & it calculates the rest for you so it takes the supposed "guess-work" out of it for you (at least that's what the literature is claiming). It also is doing an Acid-Base reaction, so my guess is that the machine is accounting for high FFA oil ("bad oil"). Kumar could share more on it though as I've not seen it, just read about it. Kumar actually has first hand experience using it. -Graydon

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Originally posted by graydonblair
If I had to spend the kind of money they want for their stainless steel processor's, I'd shoot for this companies model: http://www.ssienergy.com/ Completely stainless steel plus it's got the bonified ASTM Certification behind it (looks a lot more compact too!). -Graydon

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I think that looks well made too. But the volume is only the same as using a water heater. For a larger volume, you would still need some kind of larger tank you could do the clarifying in. For example, at 1000 liters a day, you would need maybe two of those and probably still require some heated tanks to transfer the mixture to.

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Originally posted by bobbyboy
Here is system made in North Amarica http://www.biofuelcanada.ca/ Does it look good or is it bad?

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It looks very good. But I think for starting up and learning, I would still go with a homemade unit. Even if I got into a larger commercial unit soon, I could still use all the components from my appleseed for preheating at minimum. I do know there is an economy of scale operating here, where you would only be able to justify the time spent if you produce a certain large quantity of fuel. But as soon as you buy a $20,000 unit, you are under pressure to make it pay back. I would rather use a small appleseed type for learning on, without that pressure.

First, I haven't had "first hand experience using it." The owner of Agrenergy asked me to test a couple of samples for him, and I did. Neither met spec, but it is important to note that these were basically R&D samples. To really know for sure whether a machine is capable of meeting ASTM specs (the word "certification" here seems to confuse the issue), one would have to make a carefully documented batch following the instructions, and then send it to an actual ASTM-certified lab, such as Magellan Midstream. Second, I broke a rule I've set for myself by unintentionally talking smack about another company. That was not my intention at all. I get caught up in this biodiesel-police mentality sometimes; I've been around the industry a relatively long time and I've seen a lot of stuff hit market that shouldn't have. It's gotten me quite jaded. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Agrenergy, the company that makes the machine, was lying or committing fraud- my charge was directed at what I perceived as a middleman trying to sell Agrenergy's product with false advertising. I still have not actually seen the BioPro in operation, although I have gotten a better look at it than most people. Materials-wise, I really like it. I think Agrenergy has done a good engineering job, and I commend them on all the in-house aspects of the manufacturing. Hopefully it will raise the bar for small-scale biodiesel processing.

(boy, I get sick for one day & miss a ton....) Agrenergy posted a separate thread on the ASTM issue. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10575 As for my ties to them, I don't have any except that I think they're machine looks cool and have heard positive things about it from others in the biodiesel community. I'd emailed them asking about it. Per their response (and the additional post), they're not claiming it meets the full ASTM spec yet but they are working on it. Hit the other thread for a much more eloquent description of the machine. Hats off to these guy's for being willing to talk about it here & clarify more about what it does & doesn't do (nice to see a company willing to....) -Graydon

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Originally posted by Tygon
These do look pretty nice: http://www.bioking.nl/stainless_steel_biodiesel_processors.htm We have some stainless equipment (not biodiesel) in our company, and it is very expensive. That accounts for some of the cost of those units. Something I'm curious about is their statement that their diesel requires no water washing.

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They're probably using magnesol rather than washing. It's a decent option, that I'm growing more fond of (for some applications). The biggest issue IMO is whether they're fully removing all the Magnesol. If all they're doing afterwards is running it through a 5 micron filter, I don't think they're getting it all out.

Kumar, on another thread you posted this;

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Originally posted by Rod W

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Originally posted by ybiofuels

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quote:Originally posted by Rod W I'm asking about what is a reasonable price for a piece of industrial equipment that can process WVO into BD without the operator having to do very much.

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There is no such machine: the operator of any existing biodiesel production technology has to know a lot, and be able to troubleshoot, etc. What you are asking for is a magical panacea device that doesn't exist. Before people jump on me for saying that, I can promise you, the statement comes from much personal experience and research. There is simply no turnkey device that produces guaranteed good stuff without a whole lot of accompanying expertise and ability- without a skilled operator, even the most high-tech equipment out there is just a stupid machine. REMEMBER: if you don't do the research and take the time to understand the product (and this means knowing the ins and outs of a biodiesel reaction, among other things), you are asking to be suckered by someone who promises you the moon. It happens in this industry ALL THE TIME.

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Would you suppose that applies in this case too? A company in my city makes fully automated systems that they claim makes BD that 'meets European standards'. [img]http://www.walterstranslation.biz/pics/D-Oil-spec.jpg[/img] What d'you think? Is it possible? Lots of caution required? I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm interested in your opinion.

 I purchased Bio-King equipment. I do NOT recommend the equipment or the company.