BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

I think it would be helpful to have a topic dedicated to people's opinions of the BioPro processors. What do folks think? 

 I had the chance to use one for a few weeks and was not impressed.  I can make higher conversion fuel with less methanol more consitently with my modifed appleseed.

The auto wash feature is the strongest selling point.  But, on my trials, even that did not perform correctly on every batch.

Initially, it was thought that the machine I used was broken, but according to test done at the factory, it was functioning up to spec.

Also, the design is weak, and limited to use with the prescribed recipe.  There odd work-arounds if something else needs to be done.  It lacks basic items like temp. gauge, temp. feedback sensor, insulation, graduation on the amount of methanol being added, etc. 

Bottom line - I think it is kind of over priced and needs tobe improved before it would live up to the claims made about how easy/simple/trouble free it is to make BD.

I tried to get feedback on the machine, as I was considering becoming a dealer.  But everyone who had one I could find was a dealer, so unbiased info was in short supply.

To be fair, I know there are people out there who love them.  However, I think that the sales pitch WAY OVERSTATES how little other equipment and knowledge is neeed to make good BD consitently.  IMO anyway.

Hi Andrew,

Did you carefully read the instruction manual ?

Thanks, Steve

 

Steve,

Of course I read the manual.  I also spoke with the people at AGR. 

Your last couple post seem to imply that you think I am a complete idiot.  Do you?

Hi Andrew,

I think you don't carefully read sometimes.   Most of us are smart at some things and not so smart at others.    I can spend hours rereading just one page sometimes before I get what is being said.

I remember you making negative comments about the BioPro long before you tested it.   I think your post is biased.

You promote appleseeds and sell info on how to use them.

Thanks, Steve

stephend:

Hi Andrew,

I think you don't carefully read sometimes.   Most of us are smart at some things and not so smart at others.    I can spend hours rereading just one page sometimes before I get what is being said.

I remember you making negative comments about the BioPro long before you tested it.   I think your post is biased.

You promote appleseeds and sell info on how to use them.

Thanks, Steve

Of course you are the only one without bias, that's why your arguments are the only valid ones.

 

Steve,

Show me a negative comment I made before testing it.

FYI, when I tested it, I wanted to become a distributor.  The test results were what changed my mind.

I can't support a product which underperforms compared to a homemade system that cost about 1/10 the price.

I guess that makes me biased.

 

We are checking into setting up a BioPro to make fuel at a private school for the busses.  The BioPro is the only one I can find for any decent price that will pass the electrical code and be able to feed the busses.   If you are trying to set up a legal setup then the BioPro is a very good deal ! ! !

If I can make high conversion easy to wash biodiesel in a 55 gallon drum with a stick then I think I will be able to get the BioPro cooking !

Steve,

I told you on the Appleseed thread that I would post about a safety concern (design issue) with the BioPro.  It may not be an issue in Florida, due to the warm temps, but it is worth being aware of IMO.

The machine has specific temp. limits.  It must be above a certain temp. (55f I think) for it to work correctly.  And, it is not insulated.  So they suggest it be used in a shed.  But, the machine does it's wash/dry fuctions with the lid off.  So, methanol is released.  So, they suggest the shed be well ventilated.   Now, it is kind of hard to have a shed which is both heated and well ventillated.  Some people are going to run into issues with this in cold temps.  From time to time, they will, as they should, be concerned about the cost/waste of running electric heat to heat a building that has exposure to the open air.  I say electric heat, since there should be no flame.  I think you see the issue.  Which do you suggest:  Open windows with the heat on, or closed windows with methanol fumes?

The industrial facility where I work in Maryland is considering buying the 100 gallon processor.  It would run almost non-stop producing at least 15,000 gallons per year.  Thus, before purchase is made, I'm interested in researching other's opinions of this thing.

BTW, does this thing come with a warranty?

BTW, does this thing come with a warranty?

It does if you buy from a dealer.

The only waranty you get from NT is one you have to purchase.

Hello Bob

bobabbey:

BTW, does this thing come with a warranty?

It does if you buy from a dealer.

The only waranty you get from NT is one you have to purchase.

That is not correct.  The BioPro comes with the same factory Warranty no matter who you buy it from.  NT (Northern Tools) sells an Extended warranty for an additional one or two years after the Factory Warranty runs out which can be purchased at the purchasers option.

However, as you have mentioned Northern Tool, it should be pointed out that if you buy a Biopro from Northern Tool they include shipping from California to anywhere in the lower 48 Free of charge.  For people living in Maryland that would be a real savings.. 

How necessary is the extended warranty? NT wants about $1,500 for two years.  Do these things break down often?  We'd be running it pretty much nonstop, so I need to be convinced that this product is of industrial grade quality.

If you are really going to make 15000 gallons a year, build a 300 gallon batch processor, and make a batch once a week.  It will be easier, cheaper to set up, cheaper to operate as it will use less electricity, chemicals and methanol.  To be fair it will take up a bit more space.

Good luck.

The advantage of the BioPro is that it requires minimal operator input.  We've thought about building our own 300 gallon processor, but each batch would require several hours of attention.  With that said, I'm trying to get a full, unbiased evaluation of the BioPro.

Oil handling, drying oil, water testing, titrating, any trouble shooting etc, 3 times on the biopro will likely end up taking as much time as making one batch on a well designed, less automated system.  On the DIY setup, you surely spend more time on the setup.  But, you will (be forced to) know what you are doing.  Also, if you are making that much fuel, you will probably want to run 2 stage base/base.  This will get you high conversion fuels while using less methanol.  So, doing bigger batches will save you time, rather than having to run 3 stage one reactions, drain 3 times and run 3 stage 2 reactions, you'd run one of each.  Yes, it will require more technical understanding.  But, You will save $ over the long run, using less methanol, less chemicals and less electricity.

Rather than using a "black box" and not know why it works corrreclty sometimes and not others.  It might work fine for a while, but eventually, you will need to trouble shoot issues.  Then, you'll wish you had the technical info anyway. 

My 10 cents.

Unbiased oppinion is hard to find.

To me, the ideal candidate for the BP is someone earns a very high $/hr, but wants to make BD for themselves, with minimal space.  And, they live in an area which is not too cold, or plan to process in the summer only.  And the oil they get is not too bad, not too good.

OK, you get the point.

 

 

 

Are there any larger processors on the market similar to the BioPro, which can process 300-500 gallons per batch with minimal operator handling required?

Not that I am aware of, until you go way up in price and size.

The bigger the batch size, the less operator time per gallon.

There is no such thing as an automatic machine that does not require informed, skilled, knowledgeable operators who perform tests to determine input and output quality.

Hi Andrew,

When you tested the BioPro did you  use oil that titrates at 1.5 KOH ?  What did the oil titrate at for your Biopro testing ?

Thanks, Steve

Between 1 and 2 if I recall correctly.